| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | New feature: File upload and storage (for TMs, glossaries, etc.) Thread poster: Ricardo Vella
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Fernando Toledo wrote:
Here is a new request from some members, we wish that this possibility disappear, may you consider that to create so a specific data base is a big risk for translator and can only be useful for corporations like Babelfish or other MT engines?
That's right, Fernando. This could be a possibility for MT engines or other threatening software to steal our work. Sorry, but this is what I feel.
Best,
Fernando
[Edited at 2008-06-14 19:55]
| | | | Andrea Riffo 
Chile
Local time: 05:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
| My thoughts exactly | Jun 14, 2008 |
RNAtranslator wrote:
It will always be unsafe. IMHO, the only safe way is that we upload encrypted files. Otherwise, it would be unethical to expose our clients' data. Never forget that site staff would be able to read the TMs, and unless explicitly stated, nobody but the translator should be able ro read them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the site staff and programmers (and the site owner, needless to say) be able to see the TMs?? Or am I supposed to believe that they will keep on "improving" this feature, without even glancing at the files' contents?
Sorry, but to quote someone else's clever and frightfully accurate analogy, that's like saying "all of you; you don't know me, but please hand me a copy of your house keys for safekeeping, I swear I won't even THINK of using then to enter your home". Put like that, it doesn't look too smart, does it?
Greetings,
Andrea
[Edited at 2008-06-14 23:53]
| | | | | Encrypting before uploading is a good idea | Jun 16, 2008 |
RNAtranslator wrote:
... IMHO, the only safe way is that we upload encrypted files.
Good suggestion, RNAtranslator -- encrypt the file before uploading. (Perhaps someone could suggests a convenient tool for this purpose?)
The system, as it is now, would support this. In other words, there is nothing stopping you from uploading and downloading files that have been encrypted.
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 11:49
German to English
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| New feature: File upload and storage (for TMs, glossaries, etc.) | Jun 16, 2008 |
ricardov wrote:
Click here to access this new feature, you will see two forms (one for uploading glossaries, the other for uploading TMs)...
I don't understand this.
I can understand why ProZ.com is providing online storage space as a service for its members. The actual benefits are debatable but I think a case can be made for it under certain circumstances.
But if this is "just" online storage space, why is the uploaded data managed as "glossaries" or "TMs", rather than simply as "files"? If ProZ.com has no interest in the content, presumably members could use the space to store images of their pets.
Marc
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Niraja Nanjundan (X)
Local time: 15:19
German to English
| Do site staff have the time? | Jun 16, 2008 |
Andrea Riffo wrote: RNAtranslator wrote:
It will always be unsafe. IMHO, the only safe way is that we upload encrypted files. Otherwise, it would be unethical to expose our clients' data. Never forget that site staff would be able to read the TMs, and unless explicitly stated, nobody but the translator should be able ro read them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the site staff and programmers (and the site owner, needless to say) be able to see the TMs?? Or am I supposed to believe that they will keep on "improving" this feature, without even glancing at the files' contents? [Edited at 2008-06-14 23:53]
Do you think the site staff really have the time to look closely at each and every person's glossaries and TMs? They would probably only look at them if you send a support request regarding some problem connected to them. Also, there are hundreds of languages represented on ProZ.com and I don't think the site staff and programmers know all of them. If I'm not mistaken most of the staff are English and/or Spanish speaking, and that's only two languages!
I think this is just another feature being offered to ProZ.com users and you can take it or leave it as you like - the same as all other site features.
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Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
Do you think the site staff really have the time to look closely at each and every person's glossaries and TMs?
No, maybe they don't have the time, but is it really necessary to have the time or is it more important to have TMs and glossaries classified and stored? Is it important to know other languages to understand that you have valuable material of a handful of translators? Sorry, but I don't agree with you. Anyway, anyone will be free to do what they think it is more correct.
Best regards,
Fernando
[Edited at 2008-06-16 14:43]
| | | | Julio Torres
Mexico
Local time: 03:49
English to Spanish
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The problem is not the size of the file storage.
The problem is not who is going to take a look at these files.
The problem is that SHARING CONFIDENTIAL FILES WITH THIRD PARTIES IS FORBIDDEN. Just in case you don't know, TMs have both original and translated version. And the original version is a client's propriety. Many of us have signed up confidentiality/non disclosure agreements. These agreements say thinks like:
…X immediately deliver to the company all the... See more The problem is not the size of the file storage.
The problem is not who is going to take a look at these files.
The problem is that SHARING CONFIDENTIAL FILES WITH THIRD PARTIES IS FORBIDDEN. Just in case you don't know, TMs have both original and translated version. And the original version is a client's propriety. Many of us have signed up confidentiality/non disclosure agreements. These agreements say thinks like:
…X immediately deliver to the company all the files without retaining any copies thereof…
…proprietary information shall not be reproduced in any form…
…I will not copy or reproduce any material without the authorization of the Company…
…your services to X shall not be disclosed to any third partie…
…Confidential Information […] means the Translation Materials and all other documentation and information…
... any information contained therein or any data derived there from…
…information […] shall not be disclosed to third parties under any circumstances…
In order to be clear:
The first party is your client.
The second party is you.
The third party is anyone else.
May be some of you could say "I haven't signed a confidentiality agreement with X client", but confidentiality is not luxury, but part of translators' professionalism. Organizations like ATA establish these kind of ethic behavior. But ProZ establishes professional guidelines too http://www.proz.com/professional-guidelines :
(item #7) "treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality"
At the end, of course, it's your decision to ignore ethics. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 05:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
Do you think the site staff really have the time to look closely at each and every person's glossaries and TMs? They would probably only look at them if you send a support request regarding some problem connected to them.
I think this is just another feature being offered to ProZ.com users and you can take it or leave it as you like - the same as all other site features. [/quote]
Frankly, I couldn't care less if they have the time or not.
I wouldn't give my house keys to a stranger, even if I were 1000% certain that they have no free time to pay a visit.
I second Marc's statement. Can I upload my pet's pictures for safekeeping? If only I will have access to the files, I don't see the harm to the professional image of the site nor bandwith problems, provided I don't exceed the alloted space.
Andrea
[Edited at 2008-06-16 22:43]
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| It does not matter if TM are actually read by third parties | Jun 16, 2008 |
Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
Do you think the site staff really have the time to look closely at each and every person's glossaries and TMs? They would probably only look at them if you send a support request regarding some problem connected to them. Also, there are hundreds of languages represented on ProZ.com and I don't think the site staff and programmers know all of them. If I'm not mistaken most of the staff are English and/or Spanish speaking, and that's only two languages!
No, that is not the point. As Julio Arturo Torres has explained, it doesn't matter if the owners or staff actually read or not the TM; you would breach the non disclosure agreement if you signed one and you would be liable for that; and if there is not such an agreement, it would be a fault against translator's professional ethics, as it is explicitly stated by the translators' associations. The fault is to allow third parties to read your client's data. The same as if you e-mailed me your client's files: if I never opened your e-mail that would not change anything.
Of course, if we upload encrypted files, there would not be any breach of the confidentiality; and it is very easy to encrypt a file.
| | | | | If you are a full member, you already have an FTP site | Jun 17, 2008 |
Marina Soldati wrote:
I know I can have a FTP site, but the fact is that I don´t.
Marina,
You are a full member, which means you have access to ProZ hosting service for free.
You have 100MB to use pretty much any way you want.
Setting up the FTP is not a big deal. You don't even have to buy your own domain name.
Look at the FAQ about hosting, all info is available there.
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 05:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
RNAtranslator wrote:
Of course, if we upload encrypted files, there would not be any breach of the confidentiality; and it is very easy to encrypt a file.
And probably relatively easy to crack, for someone who knows how to do it...
BTW, I'm not talking about Proz.com staff; I'm talking about the possibility that someone else might be able to access the files.
| | | | | That's important | Jun 17, 2008 |
Andrea,
You are right. Nobody is accusing Proz.com staff of anything, the problem with uploading this kind of material is that you will break the CONFIDENTIALITY RULES you accepted to comply with. It is important to mention that in order not to confuse things.
Best,
Fernando
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Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 05:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
Fernando Walker wrote:
e problem with uploading this kind of material is that you will break the CONFIDENTIALITY RULES you accepted to comply with. It is important to mention that in order not to confuse things.
[/quote]
Precisely.
Whether the Proz.com staff has the time to browse the files we upload, or even whether they feel at all compelled to do it, is completely beside the point. It doesn't matter at all.
What matters is that, even if they never EVER so much as glance at the uploaded TMs, by uploading them we are giving them the opportunity to browse them if they decide to do it, be it the same day or ten years from now. That opportunity is NOT ours to give, because the files contain our clients' original documents.
If a government employee came to me and handed me a file marked "confidential" (allegedly) for safekeeping and were caught, it wouldn't matter if I swear on the Bible, someone's mother's grave, at the altar, wherever, that I never even opened it. The fact remains that the person handed me something I am NOT supposed to have and risked a leak of information. For this, they would be sent to trial in a heartbeat. Period.
Hugs
[Edited at 2008-06-17 17:19]
| | | | | Help for encryping | Jun 17, 2008 |
Henry D wrote: RNAtranslator wrote:
... IMHO, the only safe way is that we upload encrypted files. Good suggestion, RNAtranslator -- encrypt the file before uploading. (Perhaps someone could suggests a convenient tool for this purpose?) The system, as it is now, would support this. In other words, there is nothing stopping you from uploading and downloading files that have been encrypted.
I have implemented enccyptation in my file manager. It's enough to right-click on the file an select encrypation, but I use Linux and I'm afraid that most of you are useres of that bug called Windows, so I can't help very much. If any Linux user wants help about it, just as it in the Linux forum and I will do my best.
You can have a look at this site: http://www.gnupg.org Within that site you can find links to Gpg4win and GPGee which may be the front-ends you need, but I never tried them.
For your security be sure to use always open source programs for cryptography (and for anything else too).
| | | | Comunican
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:49
Spanish to English
+ ...
| thanks, and an improvement suggestion | Jun 22, 2008 |
This looks like a useful feature - thanks Proz!
Currently, I backup my TMs and glossaries to a Yahoo account every week.
Just to give you some feedback on my experience with it:
I tried uploading a 9MB Spanish TM. On pressing "Upload" the yellow progress bar went immediately to 100% (ie too fast to have done it) and the file appeared not to be there.
I tried again - same thing. So, I decided to try some smaller files - it worked immediately for a smal... See more This looks like a useful feature - thanks Proz!
Currently, I backup my TMs and glossaries to a Yahoo account every week.
Just to give you some feedback on my experience with it:
I tried uploading a 9MB Spanish TM. On pressing "Upload" the yellow progress bar went immediately to 100% (ie too fast to have done it) and the file appeared not to be there.
I tried again - same thing. So, I decided to try some smaller files - it worked immediately for a small 18KB glossary but a 1.9MB Catalan TM didn't seem to work.
However, when I went back 5 minutes later and clicked on "uploaded files", all of them were there, which is great!!
My "improvement suggestion" would be to make clearer the status of the upload - eg a "uploading" with a progress bar, or something like that.
Thanks very much for the new feature, and I hope this feedback helps.
Regards ▲ Collapse
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