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I'd think about being cautious posting a good BB rating for a good client
Thread poster: MariusV
Kevin Lossner
Kevin Lossner  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:08
German to English
+ ...
Strange, but true May 18, 2008

Jeff Whittaker wrote:
There are also people who will see your entry in the BB and then contact the agency and inform them that they are a colleague or yours/they know you/they have worked with you/you have recommended them/you suggested they contact the agency/you are no longer doing business as as translator and they are assuming your clients.

Don't underestimate the lengths that some unscrupulous people will go to in order to get work.


I was inclined to discount this one, but then my partner mentioned two very similar cases she knows, in one of which the unscrupulous translator claimed the other was ill and unable to work. It takes all kinds, I guess. In that case, the slimebag got nowhere, but as we know from watching political events in the world, sometimes evil will triumph (that should be a neutral enough formulation for the moderator, as anyone can apply it as he/she chooses.

I think the risk of this sort of thing is minimized, however, if there is a fairly steady flow of communication with one's clients. I'm not a big fan of newsletters and circulars (i.e. I'm too lazy to write such things even for family & friends during the holidays), but something like that as an occasional "sign of life" might be useful.

[Edited at 2008-05-18 17:45]


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:08
French to English
I'm probably going to regret this.... :-) May 18, 2008

I suspect part of the problem may be a difference brought about the scarcity of otherwise of the language combinations offered.

My guess is that most general agencies handle German->English work. Unless they are very new, very small or very specialised.
My guess is that general agencies that bother dealing with English->Lithuanian are much fewer in number.

Anyone scouting for Ger->Eng work might as well just apply/enquire with any and every agency they find. If th
... See more
I suspect part of the problem may be a difference brought about the scarcity of otherwise of the language combinations offered.

My guess is that most general agencies handle German->English work. Unless they are very new, very small or very specialised.
My guess is that general agencies that bother dealing with English->Lithuanian are much fewer in number.

Anyone scouting for Ger->Eng work might as well just apply/enquire with any and every agency they find. If they get rejected, it is unlikely to be because of the language combination. It will be because of price, experience, specialisation, etc. (I say this having gone through this process some years ago for Fr->Eng - the only ones I didn't bother applying to were those that specified they were only Medical or some other specific field - I never once received the reply "we don't do Fr-Eng".)

Whereas I can well imagine that people looking for work in Eng->Lithuanian or Latvian or plenty of other scarcer languages probably receive a fair number of knockbacks purely on the the basis of their language combination. "Sorry, we don't bother with Lithuanian, there isn't enough demand."

Hence, for this latter group, I could well see that one strategy would be to follow in the footsteps of an established translator in the same pair, and apply to those agencies that you know they work for. At the very least, you know that, unlike many other agencies, they do work in your pair.
If you then wanted to be extra devious, given that the market is not large in minority pairs, then it is not a huge step to also attempt to find out their rates (by fair means or foul - in some countries it is illegal to pretend to be a customer if you are not) and apply to those agencies having knocked half a eurocent off the established translator's rate.

Now, whether the solution to that problem is to toggle various BB features or not, I wouldn't know, but it does seem to me to be distinctly uncharitable to even deny that the problem exists, even potentially. Indeed, the more I think about it, the more I think any new starter in a minority pair would have to be a bit of an idiot NOT to try this approach first.
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Uldis Liepkalns
Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 13:08
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Dear Kevin and Marius May 18, 2008

Please keep to the point and do not slide into making assumptions on each other's personalities.

Thank you,

Uldis


 
MariusV
MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 13:08
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
language combinations shall also matter May 18, 2008

Charlie Bavington wrote:

I suspect part of the problem may be a difference brought about the scarcity of otherwise of the language combinations offered.

My guess is that most general agencies handle German->English work. Unless they are very new, very small or very specialised.
My guess is that general agencies that bother dealing with English->Lithuanian are much fewer in number.

Anyone scouting for Ger->Eng work might as well just apply/enquire with any and every agency they find. If they get rejected, it is unlikely to be because of the language combination. It will be because of price, experience, specialisation, etc. (I say this having gone through this process some years ago for Fr->Eng - the only ones I didn't bother applying to were those that specified they were only Medical or some other specific field - I never once received the reply "we don't do Fr-Eng".)

Whereas I can well imagine that people looking for work in Eng->Lithuanian or Latvian or plenty of other scarcer languages probably receive a fair number of knockbacks purely on the the basis of their language combination. "Sorry, we don't bother with Lithuanian, there isn't enough demand."



Dear Charlie,

I FULLY agree with you. I think language combinations DO matter (and a lot) - for DE-EN there should be thousands of outsourcers and tens of thousand of translators. And yes, it can be that this issue is less "painful" for those "big" language combinations. And for EN-LT we have just a couple of dozen of translators and even if my colleague tells me "I am doing a translation for, say, Coca-Cola", I can almost tell who is the outsourcer/client/agency - our community is a VERY small one. So, putting some info (like a good BB entry) "for the public" can be vulnerable. At least, more vulnerable in comparison to those big language pairs.


 
Vito Smolej
Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 12:08
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Theory and practice of an efficient market May 18, 2008

Feels like we are faced with a new side to this coin.

To turn to the other side of it: agencies must be pleased. Information IS power.


 
MariusV
MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 13:08
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You do not believe in lotteries till your neighbour wins a million May 18, 2008

Kevin Lossner wrote:

MariusV wrote:
say I am a real ass, I am hungry for (your) jobs and your clients... an email "Dear Madam/Sir, I'd like to propose cooperation plaplapla"


If someone wants to do client research, BB is only one of many ways to get that information as you point out. I use it, you use it and other use it, and whether we have specific translators in mind when doing so is rather irrelevant, because indirectly I am going after *somebody's* client if I send a proposal of cooperation to agency XYZ. In the end, however, I have to convince that agency to try my services (on any basis, even - God forbid - price), and when they try me out I have to deliver what they expect, consistently and reliably. If another translator can do that - hurray. I'll probably still be hearing from that client on occasion, because a translator who can meet those criteria will be booked out sooner or later in a language pair as much in demand as German to English.


MariusV wrote:
So, please answer a question (if not for me, then for yourself) - Do you really feel "safe" posting good BBs for your clients? No worries at all? Good luck then.


Yes, quite safe. Back at the beginning of 2003 I took a big "hit" when two of my large direct clients were purchased by another company and, after months of working to get that third company as a client it was bought up by a fourth one. At the time I had a handful of clients - I was just making the transition from full-time employment to full-time freelance work, and I was concerned that this would have an unpleasant effect on my income. So I have made it a point since then to "spread the risk" and cultivate a broad clientele, so that you can walk off with my top five clients tomorrow and I can make up the volume immediately from the "pool". This strategy has its disadvantages - mostly the occasional lack of capacity for a job I would really like to take on - but it gives us one less thing to worry about in our business and allows us to focus more on the day-to-day work. When I see the occasional discussion threads where a translator mentions getting 90% of his/her volume from one agency, I just cringe. In a case like that, or one where you choose for whatever reason to work with just half a dozen agencies, I can see how the threat of poaching may be seen as a very real one. Because of the risk distribution in my business model, however, it simply doesn't enter my mind to worry about it.

MariusV wrote:
P.S. I DO NOT doubt that your are among the best professionals in your language pair. And I am not a tramp nor an illiterate idiot who loses clients and blames BB or UFOs for that.


You don't? Some days when I'm struggling to find a coherent phrase for an expression I've translated a dozen times and nothing in my TM hits the mark I certainly do.

I make no claim to be among the best, just fairly consistent in my output and working methods and fortunate in my specialties, which come from 20+ years of working in other fields. I think there are quite a number of translators who are just as good or better, but the ones I know who fit that description have very little capacity available and/or cost a lot more. I keep the names, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses of some of these people handy (in fact, I used to have an e-mail template with this information), and I do not hesitate to pass it out to old or new clients so that they can find someone when we are too busy. This is a lot less stress than worrying about poachers. With the effort spent raising a fence to keep out the poachers, one could probably just go out and get a lot more good clients.




Dear Kevin,

I fully understand your point (despite I have quite a different approach). I think that language combination DOES matter a lot here. As not to go for many pages of philosophy, I think that rare language combinations are "more vulnerable" with poster visibility of BB. In your case, the flow of work/proposals is huge, your market is very big (even huge in comparison to EN-LT) and EN-LTs have to catch every client and every proposal and be cautious about our client lists. I think that is the main difference.

All in all - why there can't be an option to toggle on/off BB "poster's" visibility (like we can toggle on/off our rates)?


 
Kevin Lossner
Kevin Lossner  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:08
German to English
+ ...
You're probably right about the exotic combinations May 18, 2008

Charlie Bavington wrote:
I suspect part of the problem may be a difference brought about the scarcity of otherwise of the language combinations offered.
...
Hence, for this latter group, I could well see that one strategy would be to follow in the footsteps of an established translator in the same pair, and apply to those agencies that you know they work for. At the very least, you know that, unlike many other agencies, they do work in your pair.


Good point, Charlie. Those of us working with major European languages like Spanish, French or German are certainly dealing with markets of a very different size. A few years ago I tried to find someone to do a small personal job out of Sinhalese, and I was amazed at how hard it was to find anyone to translate it into English, much less translate it well. But I naively suppose that in a market that small, reputation might play an even bigger role in the end that it would for German or Spanish. I certainly wouldn't be willing to roll the dice on some unknown translator for an rare but important language combination if I could find an established provider.


 
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I'd think about being cautious posting a good BB rating for a good client






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