| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Poll: Do you use any machine translation tools to assist you with your work? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Yaotl Altan 
Mexico
Local time: 17:24
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Oliver Lawrence wrote:
There are situations where MT can be handy, such as when you need a quick gist translation, even if it's not a very good one (as long as it is clearly recognised as such). Not every text consumer needs a polished, stylish, expert human translation. And there isn't always the time to obtain one, either.
That explains the origin of fast food. People work too much and have no time to cook something healthy. Then, the world complains about obesity and heart attacks. In translation, that's how we can understand a significant decrease in quality.
I find both the 'cheating' and the 'Luddite' positions rather nonsensical.
Since MT is not good enough to present as your own work, you will always have to edit MT output thoroughly, just as you already thoroughly edit your own first draft.
Are clients paying the same rate?
Uh-uh..... "Well, sorry, but as this has been machine-translated before, we believe your rates are too high" will be the reply. Yes, the McFlurry and the French fries are cheap and quick too.
It's a tool.
Uh- uh. More than a tool, it's a weapon.
If the balance between a much shorter drafting stage and a much longer editing stage allowed me to produce the same quality text faster (and if the confidentiality issues could be resolved), then I would consider it. In the end, you are using your own linguistic knowledge and sensitivities to edit the draft, however it was produced. Do those considering it 'cheating' not use dictionaries or spellcheckers?
As for the Luddism, if MT can drive some of the bottom feeders out of the business, then that may be no bad thing;
That's exactly what won't happen. Bottom feeders will rule the market with very low rates.
it would certainly strengthen the remaining talent pool.
Your analysis starts right rom the end. Why should the remaining talent pool keep working for clients who offer you peanuts? "Well, thank you, I'll translate it with Google Translate. You are too expensive" And yes, we will be "expensive" according to the new low-quality rates based in a free "tool", like Google. Actually, our rates will be the same.
If you can't produce a better translation than a computer, perhaps you ought to be doing something else for a living.
Do all those unemployed European workers tell you something? Many, many of them have been displaced by automation. Did they receive training to do "something else"....and if they received that training, when will see a new robot that will displace them again? Are humans condemned to oil the robot now and then? Will the income of that worker be the same than years before when he used to do the work the robot is doing now?
The bottom line is that humans find work to do tasks that other humans need. The waysides of history are littered with jobs that have fallen out of favour. Those who complain about 'machines taking our jobs' may note that we have no divine right to do a particular job, and if a task is made redundant, those who used to do it simply have to find something else to do. That's life. But I don't see it happening any time soon in the quality translation market.
Humans have the right to feel useful in spite of an industrial might that overwhelms laboral rights. Look at the "minijobs" in Europe, then in the rest of the world. Less money and more load for the worker, forget about the laboral rights. Have you ever noticed what's going on in Britain and Spain with the cuts health public system? "Guys, please do not get ill very often". I reject this darwinism.
Kodak had more than 100,000 workers in the pinnacle of its success; now Instagram is run by 13 people. Where are the other 99,987? Did they receive training to "find something else to do"? And if they received that training, are their new activities giving them a good income, enough to have a decent life?
No, that's not life, that's how corporations have degenerated life.
[Modifié le 2013-06-06 14:14 GMT]
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I don't, except for some private translations from languages I don't know, or when I'm fishing for leads re: vocabulary.
| | | | | OK, here we go | Jun 6, 2013 |
1. If the customer wants a quick and dirty translation, and they understand and accept its limitations, what's the problem? If I want to buy a sandwich for lunch rather than go to a Michelin-starred restaurant, I can choose to do so. Not all translation needs to be polished publication standard. That doesn't mean that you or I are somehow forced either to provide quick-and-dirty translations or to work for quick-and-dirty prices.
2. If clients are unwilling to pay for the editing ti... See more 1. If the customer wants a quick and dirty translation, and they understand and accept its limitations, what's the problem? If I want to buy a sandwich for lunch rather than go to a Michelin-starred restaurant, I can choose to do so. Not all translation needs to be polished publication standard. That doesn't mean that you or I are somehow forced either to provide quick-and-dirty translations or to work for quick-and-dirty prices.
2. If clients are unwilling to pay for the editing time to knock raw MT output into shape, don't work for them. You believe my rates are too high? Fine, you are at liberty to find another supplier. And I am at liberty to continue to work with clients who appreciate the service I provide (of which there are still plenty).
3. It's only a weapon if translators allow it to be used as such. Those who don't produce very good product will always be vulnerable.
4. Bottom feeders only rule the poor-quality end of the market. Clients who value a high-quality product cannot get that from bottom feeders, and they will stick with the premier translators. As MT improves, why will anyone hire poor-quality translators, when the computer can do the same much quicker and cheaper?
5. The remaining talent pool will be working for clients who understand and appreciate the value of the product. MT will not be able to write persuasive marketing copy, decipher a complex chemical patent, or unravel the subtleties of a legal opinion any time soon.
6. As a freelance translator, I did not passively "receive" training; I used my initiative to cultivate my skills. Granted, some big corporations could conduct themselves more responsibly, but in the final analysis, you have to take some responsibility for your career and your living, not expect the powers that be to hand opportunities to you on a plate. Jobs and professions come and go. There are a lot fewer blacksmiths than there were 200 years ago, but a lot more computer programmers. As one door closes, another opens. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 17:24
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| My beloved blacksmith. | Jun 6, 2013 |
Oliver Lawrence wrote:
... but in the final analysis, you have to take some responsibility for your career and your living, not expect the powers that be to hand opportunities to you on a plate....
The point here is that your vision strengthens those powers, accumulating the necessary might to crush us.
Jobs and professions come and go.
Yes, some jobs just go and never come. Ask a USA citizen whose jobs flew down to Mexico where there are slack laboral and environmental laws. Then, those jobs went to China.
Ask the ex Kodak workers. Excess of technology is killing the middle class. The "funny" thing is that those destroyers later ask why are so many upheavals around the world....
There are a lot fewer blacksmiths than there were 200 years ago, but a lot more computer programmers. As one door closes, another opens.
My Mexican granfather was one of the best blacksmiths until the free trade agreements and the GATT opened borders and destroyed the footwear industry, the field ...the blacksmiths.
Then, being a blacksmith was not profitable anymore, because the local market was damaged with low quality products. Customers love a quick and dirty (translation) smithy.
He studied just the elementary school but taught me good lessons about life and dignity. "Do you see that building? The owner wanted me to install a metallic ladder, butI refused because he wanted to pay me 1/3 of the real cost without security harnesses for my workers. He called me some months later, accepting my normal rate and a bit more". I told him that it was a good deal. My grandfather said: "Dignity is not negotiable. I do not lose that job, he lost my works. Of course, another blacksmith was assigned the ladder, but he learned that day how to treat us: dignity, my son." I prefer this vision of life rather than other relatives with diplomas+certificates+private universities careers devoted to and for money.
I think we, the people of translation, have been losing our dignity everytime we use MT.
Kind regards!
[Modifié le 2013-06-06 18:18 GMT]
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Customers who love it quick and dirty aren't the sort of customers you want to keep. There are others out there who value a high-quality service, who value a marketing translation that actually helps to sell their product, who value a contract translation that doesn't expose them to the risk of litigation. Like the building owner who eventually realised that he needed the value that your grandfather could provide.
The point is that we have a choice as to which end of the market we w... See more Customers who love it quick and dirty aren't the sort of customers you want to keep. There are others out there who value a high-quality service, who value a marketing translation that actually helps to sell their product, who value a contract translation that doesn't expose them to the risk of litigation. Like the building owner who eventually realised that he needed the value that your grandfather could provide.
The point is that we have a choice as to which end of the market we want to aim at. We are not a mass of oppressed workers; we are (or, at our best, can be) individual entrepreneurs. If you're not good enough to beat the machine on quality, reinvent yourself in a job you can do better at. That's what I did. Why should people remain in the same job for 40-50 years? Be proactive, not defensive. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 17:24
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Google is not paying royalties in Belgium, so some governments state that a "Google tax" should be created.
If that firm can blackmail European governments, guess the damage it can do to our profession, divided as we are: some translators consider MT a useful tool, some others consider it a harmful weapon.
http://www.proceso.com.mx/?p=330392
When they rule the t... See more Google is not paying royalties in Belgium, so some governments state that a "Google tax" should be created.
If that firm can blackmail European governments, guess the damage it can do to our profession, divided as we are: some translators consider MT a useful tool, some others consider it a harmful weapon.
http://www.proceso.com.mx/?p=330392
When they rule the translation world with its "magic" MT, how deep will be the influence of small group of excellent human translators? David vs Goliath. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We don't need to influence the world ... | Jun 7, 2013 |
... we only need to appeal to the group of discerning clients who know that MT cannot provide what they need (and premier human translators can). I don't see that those clients who value quality human translation are suddenly going to jump on board the MT bandwagon just because it's cheap. If it doesn't meet their requirements, they will stick with what will.
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I have used MT several times only to know how it works and understand it better, but have NEVER used it with my clients.
Please let's not forget that we are not allowed to use Google Translate (or any other online MT). We can be sued for that (even if we have not signed an NDA).
It's ok if we use offline MT (Moses, to mention one). It's just another tool.
Regards,
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