| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Off topic: The expression "to be full-time employed", plus rant at offensive mail from ProZ member Thread poster: Nesrin
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| Absolutely outragous... | Oct 15, 2010 |
Didn't realize such people existed on ProZ. You have my sympathies.
Best wishes
Anna
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Andrew Swift wrote:
I suspect I know the identity of the phantom mailer (Proz.com member since 2007):
KudoZ activity
Questions: 635 (1 open)
(19 without valid answers)
Answers: 0
Incidentally, xyz was the colleague whom Nesrin was supposedly “egging on”.
Hi Nesrin
Report it (you have) and forget it. If it weren't such disgusting, outrageous behaviour, the emailed rant would almost be amusing, given the source.
[Edited at 2010-10-15 12:11 GMT]
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I can't add anything to what has already been said, but you have all my sympathy. I also have always enjoyed and benefited from your participation in forums. How sad that this person is making his/her mark on the world by spreading misery.
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 10:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| full-time employed vs employed full-time | Oct 16, 2010 |
Nesrin wrote: (seems to be a name of Turkish origin)
...your phrase " full-time employed" is incorrect. Correct: "I have a full-time job now." Now bearing in mind that I would usually spell fulltime as "full-time" with a dash (but this being an informal "friendly" letter, I didn't bother much)...
The error is not the spelling of "full-time" but the position of the adjective relative to the noun. In English, most adjective precede the noun they relate to, but in a few cases, the adjective follows the noun, and it is a mistake (sometimes a frequent one, even among English speakers) to put such adjectives in front of the noun in sentences where it should not.
Correct: I am employed full-time.
Incorrect: I am full-time employed.
Correct: I have a full-time employed wife.
Correct: I am a full-time employee.
Also correct, but has a rather different meaning: I am an employee full-time.
A little hyphen omission is IMO not a big error (variant spellings are common, after all), but using a non-idiomatic word order is a much graver error, I think.
It is a little unfair, though, that translators who make this error get flamed by colleagues and critics (and clients who want discounts), whereas native speakers who make the exact same error are merely looked down upon by grammarians and elementary school teachers.
That said (I), translators should not make such errors. That said (II), when I write in forums etc, I also make the types of mistakes that I would not make when writing a translation for a client. Some people believe that if you write poorly when not translating, then you would write poorly when translating too (hence the importance of not making any mistakes when writing to clients).
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| What do you find offensive specifically, Nesrin? | Oct 16, 2010 |
Nesrin wrote: Perp wrote:
1. Just who are you employed with? I hope that it is not for translation purposes into English or where you have to use English, because your phrase " full-time employed" is incorrect. Correct: "I have a full-time job now."
2. But maybe in Turkey, they don't care how good your English is, just the fact that you can understand it and answer customers in English in Turkey.
3. I have encountered this problem in (country name), having to rewrite texts translated by supposedly bilingual (languages).
4. Are you the daughter of a "Gastarbeiter"?
5. Such a person would understand German and be able to reply in broken English.
I'm curious, Nesrin, what it was that offended you about this e-mail? I can see five things that might offend someone who is easy to offend:
1. The correction itself
2. The insult to your employer
3. The accusation that you're not a true bilingual
4. The gastarbeider reference
5. The opinion that your English is "broken"
Which of these things should the perp have omitted to have his message qualify as no longer offensive to you?
| | | | | It's offensive-no doubt about it | Oct 16, 2010 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Nesrin wrote: Perp wrote:
1. Just who are you employed with? I hope that it is not for translation purposes into English or where you have to use English, because your phrase " full-time employed" is incorrect. Correct: "I have a full-time job now."
2. But maybe in Turkey, they don't care how good your English is, just the fact that you can understand it and answer customers in English in Turkey.
3. I have encountered this problem in (country name), having to rewrite texts translated by supposedly bilingual (languages).
4. Are you the daughter of a "Gastarbeiter"?
5. Such a person would understand German and be able to reply in broken English. I'm curious, Nesrin, what it was that offended you about this e-mail? I can see five things that might offend someone who is easy to offend: 1. The correction itself 2. The insult to your employer 3. The accusation that you're not a true bilingual 4. The gastarbeider reference 5. The opinion that your English is "broken" Which of these things should the perp have omitted to have his message qualify as no longer offensive to you?
The email is offensive. That's not up for discussion imo.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:59
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:
Nesrin wrote:
1. The correction itself
2. The insult to your employer
3. The accusation that you're not a true bilingual
4. The gastarbeider reference
5. The opinion that your English is "broken"
The mixture of all five. Elements of racism. Aggressive tone.
Can't believe you are asking what's offensive there.
[Edited at 2010-10-16 09:27 GMT]
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for the detailed explanation, Samuel | Oct 16, 2010 |
Your explanation (and that of other colleagues above) makes things perfectly clear. It still greatly upsetting me that I'm not really "feeling" the error, if you know what I mean. I thought I had, over the years, developed a good natural feel for what's right and wrong in English, but this particular case doesn't seem to want to sink in...
For me the difference between "to be employed full-time" and "to be full-time employed" seems ... See more Your explanation (and that of other colleagues above) makes things perfectly clear. It still greatly upsetting me that I'm not really "feeling" the error, if you know what I mean. I thought I had, over the years, developed a good natural feel for what's right and wrong in English, but this particular case doesn't seem to want to sink in...
For me the difference between "to be employed full-time" and "to be full-time employed" seems like the difference between "this was nicely said" and "this was said nicely". But I guess I just have to accept this one as it is - I'm not going to argue with an army of native speakers! )
As regards your second posting - I don't really want to go in detail into what precisely upset me (or rather, the combination of things that upset me). I think everyone else who posted on this thread seemed to "get it" without me having to spell it out. I'm not sure if you're implying that I was being over-sensitive? One thing's for sure, the fact that somebody corrected my English is not it. As you see, I even specifically asked people to correct me on this thread. But there are ways and ways of doing things. ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:59
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| A sense of entitlement? | Oct 16, 2010 |
I just don't get it why this person felt entitled to contact and harass you? Just because it's the Internet and it's a "free zone", it doesn't mean it can't be properly punished.
| | | | Aude Sylvain
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
+ ...
Hi Nesrin,
Everything has been said already and I'm not a native speaker: this is just to send you my warmest regards.
The email you received is offensive, racist and disgusting.
Best wishes - and good luck with your full-time position!
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Nesrin wrote:
It still greatly upsetting me that I'm not really "feeling" the error, if you know what I mean. I thought I had, over the years, developed a good natural feel for what's right and wrong in English, but this particular case doesn't seem to want to sink in...
As a non-native but fully bilingual second-language (i.e. not foreign-language) speaker of English, I know the feeling.
I'm not sure if you're implying that I was being over-sensitive?
I was, in a way. But perhaps I'm just an analytical person, which may be why my reaction to such a messages would be to seek the insult and then ignore it, and focus on the rest of the message (without reading the insult), instead of seeing the entire message as one, complete, whole insult.
Very few of us type as fast as we speak. When we write e-mails, a whole range of emotions may go through our heads as we write, and it would take a very phlegmatic person to have one emotion affect his entire e-mail.
There must be something about translators that make all the other respondents here feel the same way about that message. It is miracle that we can have civil conversations here in the forums -- it makes me wonder how many of them feel regularly insulted by what is written here.
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