| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Blue Board Blackmail Thread poster: sarahbenson
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Michael Beijer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:48
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Modify your negative comment on the BB and change it back once you get paid.
Michael
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| I didn't realise that | Aug 2, 2012 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
Modify your negative comment on the BB and change it back once you get paid.
Michael
I did that, on one occasion. I considered it honest, in the face of the dishonesty I would have been perpetrating had I falsely given the agency a good BB rating simply because they finally paid me.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:48
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| unreasonable people | Aug 2, 2012 |
Sadly, sometimes the only way to deal with unreasonable people is to stoop to their level (temporarily).
| | | | sarahbenson
Local time: 10:48
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Payment Received | Aug 3, 2012 |
I did not say I would change my comment I simply sent them the Proz rules stating that an entry may be modified after receiving payment. I duly modified it but as I still wouldn't work for them again I didn't change the LWA. Unfortunately they continue to send me unpleasant, threatening emails and have even contacted translators that have commented on this thread and threatened them (in spite of the fact the company is not named here and no comments directly reflect on them as a company) This i... See more I did not say I would change my comment I simply sent them the Proz rules stating that an entry may be modified after receiving payment. I duly modified it but as I still wouldn't work for them again I didn't change the LWA. Unfortunately they continue to send me unpleasant, threatening emails and have even contacted translators that have commented on this thread and threatened them (in spite of the fact the company is not named here and no comments directly reflect on them as a company) This is of course completely unacceptable and simply confirms my LWA opinion. ▲ Collapse
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sarahbenson wrote:
Unfortunately they continue to send me unpleasant, threatening emails and have even contacted translators that have commented on this thread and threatened them (in spite of the fact the company is not named here and no comments directly reflect on them as a company)
I have to report that I was called by this person, someone completely unknown to me in the past and whose name either was not mentioned (very honestly I do not recall it was) or I am unable to remember. I have to say that this person did NOT threaten me in any case.
The call was tense, but not threatening. In total, 26 minutes in a phone call I did not need on a very busy day. If there is a next time, it will be all on tape just in case, but the call will last 1 minute, the time it takes me to give this person the name and number of my lawyer.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: sarahbenson wrote:
Unfortunately they continue to send me unpleasant, threatening emails and have even contacted translators that have commented on this thread and threatened them (in spite of the fact the company is not named here and no comments directly reflect on them as a company) I have to report that I was called by this person, someone completely unknown to me in the past and whose name either was not mentioned (very honestly I do not recall it was) or I am unable to remember. I have to say that this person did NOT threaten me in any case. The call was tense, but not threatening. In total, 26 minutes in a phone call I did not need on a very busy day. If there is a next time, it will be all on tape just in case, but the call will last 1 minute, the time it takes me to give this person the name and number of my lawyer.
.. so that's how seriously they take the Blue Board.
All the more reason for always making sure one is never blackmailed into changing a negative rating to a positive one, in exchange for payment.
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Tom in London wrote:
.. so that's how seriously they take the Blue Board.
I'm glad you now see what I mean!
| | | | | Quite honestly... | Aug 4, 2012 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: Hello all, Please note that, as Blue Board rule #8 states, exerting pressure on someone to change a Blue Board entry or reply is forbidden at ProZ.com, http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/8#8 So, I invite you to submit a support request specifying the outsourcer's name and Blue Board record URL so that site staff can take appropriate action, http://www.proz.com/support . Thanks! Lucia
... Lucia, what would the Proz staff be able to do upon receiving such a complaint?
If the translator keeps the low LWA on the BB, s/he won't get paid for their work, Proz (of course!) won't pay them and collect from the rogue client, and even after that outsourcer is banned from Proz, the final outcome is an unpaid translator and a BB record ending with that low LWA. Not desirable.
If the translator changes that LWA to 5 and complains to Proz, that outsourcer may be banned from posting jobs on Proz, but not elsewhere, and they'll have that LWA = 5 to show. (I assume Proz staff won't be changing translators' LWAs on their own.) The final outcome is an unreliable BB. Not desirable either.
Therefore, as the BB has been acclaimed as one of the Prozians' major reasons for a paid membership, I would reiterate my suggestion that the Proz development team should prioritize enhancing the BB with more detail. As I said on my support ticket, one competitor (the brown liquid one) has had some good ideas on this matter, which could be used as a benchmark.
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Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 02:48
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | BB is not designed for blackmail | Aug 5, 2012 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: ... Lucia, what would the Proz staff be able to do upon receiving such a complaint?
I would love to find out if they do anything (in my case they did nothing).
If the translator keeps the low LWA on the BB, s/he won't get paid for their work
Are you speaking from personal experience, Jose? I got paid on more than one occasion precisely because of my negative entries. The requests for retraction or edit of my entry came *after* payment had been made. I did acknowledge receipt of payment but refused to change my LWA and left my complaints unchanged, for others to see.
If the translator changes that LWA to 5
That would be dishonest and misleading, and harmful to the entire translator community.
The final outcome is an unreliable BB.
I'm afraid it already is. As long as there are individuals who are too afraid to post bad feedback (out of fear of not getting paid and/or in hopes of getting work) or who are willing to give in to such blackmail (in hopes of getting paid), and as long as ProZ.com staff does not take a firm approach to this very unsettling trend, the BB will remain unreliable.
| | | | | Idilko, the truth is... | Aug 5, 2012 |
... that if there are so many desperate translators out there gladly accepting despicable rates (and later complaining on forums here and elsewhere), as well as lending interest-free money to these low-paying clients by accepting abusively long payment terms, it's pretty certain that they'll agree to changing their LWA to any figure requred to get their due payment ASAP, though late, and be able to pay their bills.
Bear in mind that neither Proz nor the translators community (who w... See more ... that if there are so many desperate translators out there gladly accepting despicable rates (and later complaining on forums here and elsewhere), as well as lending interest-free money to these low-paying clients by accepting abusively long payment terms, it's pretty certain that they'll agree to changing their LWA to any figure requred to get their due payment ASAP, though late, and be able to pay their bills.
Bear in mind that neither Proz nor the translators community (who would benefit from an accurate BB) would ever consider paying that translator's bills.
I could quote a few large, successful translation agencies who have truly professional PMs on board, and which are extremely pleasant to deal with. Yet some of these agencies, while ruthless with the short deadlines they give translators, are quite careless regarding meeting the payment terms they imposed themselves. Yet these same agencies have a long string of 5s on their BB record.
There are many such agencies I would work for again... if only they paid cash in advance!
My point is that when a translator is bluntly requested to select a radio button on "Did you get paid on time, and as agreed? Yes or No?", it's harder to lie.
[Edited at 2012-08-05 01:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 02:48
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | Thank you Jose... | Aug 5, 2012 |
....for your thoughts; I find your description of the sad state of affairs very accurate. I don't believe there is a viable solution to stop anyone from cheating. Those dishonest enough to lie will do so, regardless of whether they have to write an essay or just tick a box.
Perhaps there is no better way, and we each have to gain our own experience, BB or not. With any new client, the first time comes with some risk (for both parties involved). After the first time, it's always our person... See more ....for your thoughts; I find your description of the sad state of affairs very accurate. I don't believe there is a viable solution to stop anyone from cheating. Those dishonest enough to lie will do so, regardless of whether they have to write an essay or just tick a box.
Perhaps there is no better way, and we each have to gain our own experience, BB or not. With any new client, the first time comes with some risk (for both parties involved). After the first time, it's always our personal choice if the particular client is worth our further efforts or not; we already know what to expect. As the old proverb says, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Clarification on honesty | Aug 5, 2012 |
Ildiko Santana wrote:
....for your thoughts; I find your description of the sad state of affairs very accurate. I don't believe there is a viable solution to stop anyone from cheating. Those dishonest enough to lie will do so, regardless of whether they have to write an essay or just tick a box.
Perhaps there is no better way, and we each have to gain our own experience, BB or not. With any new client, the first time comes with some risk (for both parties involved). After the first time, it's always our personal choice if the particular client is worth our further efforts or not; we already know what to expect. As the old proverb says, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
Those who change their low LWAs to get paid are merely acting on self-defense, being more loyal to their commitment to support their family (or whatever; staying alive is a worthy cause too), than to exposing clients who are not shy from recklessly causing financial hardship to their vendors.
While we are on honesty, clients who fail to fulfill their role in the deal are not necessarily dishonest. Some are likewise more loyal to their (and their family's) own welfare than to their vendors. These fail to do due diligence on their clients' credit, and/or may be somewhat lackadaisical in their collection procedures. After all it's not 100% their work nor 100% their money at stake, and they have other sources of income (i.e. other clients).
To illustrate, as it's not theirs, they offer long payment terms to gather more clients, get more jobs. If this policy gets them plenty, they'll have enough going to stay afloat, even if a significant portion of their (end) clients who don't have the money to pay now fails to have the money then, when payment is due.
These outsourcers are not dishonest, merely unprofessional. However this doesn't spare the translation market from having a sizeable share of dishonest outsourcing operators too. The latter are characterized by the PM who explains the situation with "Your payment is late because the boss holds the purse strings, and s/he is incommunicado for the next X weeks on a ship cruise with their entire family".
Incompetent, unprofessional, or dishonest, it doesn't matter. The translator often relies on the Blue Board and alikes to do their own due diligence, when possible. Clear-cut closed questions would significantly enhance reliability in this process.
While an outsourcer could, upon payment, ask a translator to change their LWA (viz. "How likely is it for you to work for that company again?"), they aren't morally entitled to ask that translator to change their answer to a direct question about a fact, such as "Were you paid on time?", when the truthful answer is "No!", regardless of mitigating factors or reasons for it being so.
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sarahbenson
Local time: 10:48
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Changing Status | Aug 6, 2012 |
Jose: Those who change their low LWAs to get paid are merely acting on self-defense, being more loyal to their commitment to support their family (or whatever; staying alive is a worthy cause too), than to exposing clients who are not shy from recklessly causing financial hardship to their vendors.
I did not change my status to get paid. I modified it to acknowledge payment had been received however my LWA rating remains unchanged as a warning to other translators. It would h... See more Jose: Those who change their low LWAs to get paid are merely acting on self-defense, being more loyal to their commitment to support their family (or whatever; staying alive is a worthy cause too), than to exposing clients who are not shy from recklessly causing financial hardship to their vendors.
I did not change my status to get paid. I modified it to acknowledge payment had been received however my LWA rating remains unchanged as a warning to other translators. It would have been necessary to modify it regardless of any pressure exerted by the company and not because of said pressure so that it is a true reflection of events. ▲ Collapse
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