Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
faire nombre
English translation:
be reduced to
Added to glossary by
Janet Cannon
Jun 25, 2008 07:26
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
United States
faire nombre
French to English
Other
Philosophy
theology
more neo-Whitehead, is there a good way to say this ?
les constantes ne font pas nombre avec la Nature.
les constantes ne font pas nombre avec la Nature.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | be reduced to |
Andy Bliss
|
| 3 | to be classified (counted) with |
Melissa McMahon
|
Proposed translations
9 hrs
Selected
be reduced to
This looks like quite a tricky text! I basically agree with Melissa's reasoning - the guy appears to be saying that constants and Nature are not synonymous. So one possibility might be to turn the sentence round and say:
'Nature cannot be reduced to (mere) constants.' / 'Nature is not reducible to (mere) constants.'
Interestingly, given the subject of your text, the expression 'faire nombre' seems to come up a lot in a religious context, the following being one example (their italics):
On le pressent, si la théologie chrétienne se comprend à la fois
comme tradition — et non suite discontinue de représentations diverses— et entend se référer à des Écritures antérieures qu’elle reçoit comme fondement, malgré leur diversité interne, il faut qu’elle ait opéré quelque déplacement. Elle aura notamment dissocié la question de la vérité de celle des représentations du monde, de l’humain et de Dieu au travers desquelles s’exprime cette vérité : la vérité est dite à travers des représentations (il n’y a pas en ces matières de vérité pensable hors représentations supposées, même si les deux ordres sont distincts), mais sans faire nombre avec elles (la vérité ne s’y résorbe pas, ni ne s’y épuise pas).
'Nature cannot be reduced to (mere) constants.' / 'Nature is not reducible to (mere) constants.'
Interestingly, given the subject of your text, the expression 'faire nombre' seems to come up a lot in a religious context, the following being one example (their italics):
On le pressent, si la théologie chrétienne se comprend à la fois
comme tradition — et non suite discontinue de représentations diverses— et entend se référer à des Écritures antérieures qu’elle reçoit comme fondement, malgré leur diversité interne, il faut qu’elle ait opéré quelque déplacement. Elle aura notamment dissocié la question de la vérité de celle des représentations du monde, de l’humain et de Dieu au travers desquelles s’exprime cette vérité : la vérité est dite à travers des représentations (il n’y a pas en ces matières de vérité pensable hors représentations supposées, même si les deux ordres sont distincts), mais sans faire nombre avec elles (la vérité ne s’y résorbe pas, ni ne s’y épuise pas).
Note from asker:
| thanks very much ! I'm mulling both these over. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks a lot, Andy. With all the good examples you guys give, I'm getting much better Internet search reflexes ! See the note to Melissa for my solution."
1 hr
Melissa McMahon
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Specializes in field
Australia
Related KudoZ points
:
86
to be classified (counted) with
I understand the expression "faire nombre avec" as "to be classified with", ie "to be counted in the same set as", and thus "faire pas nombre avec" as "to form a separate class", "not to be counted alongside".
[Eg: "Le précepte ferme alors que l’interdit ouvre. En effet, un commandement positif oblige absolument tandis que l’interdit ouvre les autres possibles ou du moins laisse de la place à la création. Il existe trois interdits fondamentaux qui obligent absolument et qui ne font pas nombre avec les autres..."
http://www.discernement.com/GrandsThemes/PhilosophieMorale/L...]
Here, I think the author is saying that the "constants" are what we derive from Nature and which allow us to understand it, they are a separate category to Nature itself. The laws of reality are a separate thing to reality itself.
I'm not quite sure how that idea fits in the whole sentence - not quite sure what the author's getting at with the idea of "the conditions" (the initial conditions?) being "adjusted" to Nature - maybe that's clearer from the broader context.
"The initial conditions are such that Nature gives rise to the constants we know, which allow us to describe it and its trajectory. As such, to claim that the conditions are adjusted to Nature is thus a pure tautology, since the constants form a separate class to Nature."
[Eg: "Le précepte ferme alors que l’interdit ouvre. En effet, un commandement positif oblige absolument tandis que l’interdit ouvre les autres possibles ou du moins laisse de la place à la création. Il existe trois interdits fondamentaux qui obligent absolument et qui ne font pas nombre avec les autres..."
http://www.discernement.com/GrandsThemes/PhilosophieMorale/L...]
Here, I think the author is saying that the "constants" are what we derive from Nature and which allow us to understand it, they are a separate category to Nature itself. The laws of reality are a separate thing to reality itself.
I'm not quite sure how that idea fits in the whole sentence - not quite sure what the author's getting at with the idea of "the conditions" (the initial conditions?) being "adjusted" to Nature - maybe that's clearer from the broader context.
"The initial conditions are such that Nature gives rise to the constants we know, which allow us to describe it and its trajectory. As such, to claim that the conditions are adjusted to Nature is thus a pure tautology, since the constants form a separate class to Nature."
Note from asker:
| thanks very much ! I'm mulling this over. Very helpful ! |
| This was very helpful, Melissa, but as I can't split the points I'll give this one to Andy. My result : "So, to allege that conditions are tailored to Nature is a pure tautology, as the constants are not reducible to Nature. Nature is therefore functional and autonomous in its trajectory." In spite of the occasional headache, it is more fun than marketing stuff ! |
Discussion
My take so far :
The initial conditions are such that Nature finds itself with the constants known to us, which allow us to describe it as well as its trajectory.
So, to allege that conditions are tailored to Nature is a pure tautology, as the constants (( ne font pas nombre )) with Nature.
Perhaps a formulation with "given" for constants ? The idea is that the physical laws governing nature are a sort of natural by-product of the nature of God.