https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/6816173-adh%25C3%25A9rent-d%25E2%2580%2599un-viseur-fiscal-conventionn%25C3%25A9.html&phpv_redirected=1
This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
mise en croix finale
carte métier

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

ADHÉRENT D’UN VISEUR FISCAL CONVENTIONNÉ

English translation:

Member of a panel Revenue-accredited to sign off as tax agents

Added to glossary by Adrian MM.
May 12, 2020 18:48
4 yrs ago
57 viewers *
French term

ADHÉRENT D’UN VISEUR FISCAL CONVENTIONNÉ

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Lawyer's fee note (France)
This appears at the foot of a lawyer's fee note just above the line stating "payment of fees by cheque accepted"
I gather it has something to do with the tax payable by the practice but I cannot find a suitable translation

Suggestion will be welcome from any collegaue who is familiar with this, but please no bland guesses
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 Member of a body Revenue-accredited to certify (sign off) accounts as tax agents
4 CPA or CA with approved tax preparer status
3 +1 "audited by an approved tax adviser/preparer" // "audited by a registered tax accounts approver"
4 member of a state approved business association or CPA office ....
3 a tax inspector's client who's signed an agreement with the tax authorities
3 -1 member (affiliate) of a tax (financial) sight (or viewfinder) linked with the public (health) sector
Change log

May 12, 2020 19:18: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "ADHERENT D’UN VISEUR FISCAL CONVENTIONNE" to "ADHÉRENT D’UN VISEUR FISCAL CONVENTIONNÉ"

May 26, 2020 14:10: Adrian MM. Created KOG entry

Discussion

AllegroTrans (asker) May 16, 2020:
it's from France Indicated in the question
Lisa Rosengard May 16, 2020:
I'm not absolutely sure about inspectors and clients, as the use of the word 'client' may vary, depending on who uses the word when it means not only 'customer'. A tax inspector may work for the inland revenue in this country but there's no other information in the context provided. I don't even know if the original text is from France, Canada, New Guinea, Senegal. I give up!
ph-b (X) May 15, 2020:
Daryo, Thank you. Your weekend homework: find out about the definition and uses (in context) of adhérent.
Daryo May 15, 2020:
@ ph-b you have practical experience of this, which is certainly an advantage, but being an "outside observer" has also good sides - you start your search with a blank slate, without any "previous knowledge" that might distract you from new details.

Like "viseur fiscal conventionné" - from what I can find find "conventionné" is only applied to accountants while "agréée" is what would be applied to "association de gestion" [agréée par l’Administration fiscale https://www.afosteo.org/actualites/nouvelles-dispositions-ag... ]
Reuben Wright May 14, 2020:
@ Francois

Because the qualifications and the standards that define them are different; they are not the same thing.

"HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) recognises that many tax agents and advisers are meeting the Professional Conduct in Relation to Taxation set by the largest professional bodies. Alongside this, the HMRC standard for agents, above, ensures a minimum standard has been set for all agents and, in particular, those that are unaffiliated to any professional body."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-the-standard...

The professional in question does not adhere to the standards of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs or the IRS; they adhere to those of the source country. For example, the qualifications required to practice law in France train you to be an expert in French law, not English law.
We need either a generic term for the professional (accountant, tax advisor; for the very title that phb pointed out is missing) or another way of phrasing the non-specific "adhérent" (see Daryo's answer).
Francois Boye May 14, 2020:
@ Reuben

Why not say HMRC tax agent or IRS third party authorisee?
Francois Boye May 14, 2020:
@Reuben

We just have to explain the background of each title. After all, a 'viseur fiscal' is also a title granted by a government.

OGAs are not the only 'viseurs fiacaux' en France. CPAs too may be authorized to authenticate tax returns.
Reuben Wright May 14, 2020:
My only problem with "tax agent/Third-party authorisee" is that they are too broad, it verges on more of a "procuration"; it authorizes someone to do something on your behalf. They are not "conventionné" (certified, state-regulated).

I agree with phb's entry. We are looking for a professional who is a member of an AGA, who has signed an AGREEMENT to adhere to the requirements set out by that AGA. In France, this agreement confers them approved status with the tax authorities which, in turn allows their clients to benefit from a 25% non-majoration.

In France, who else could this "member" be but a qualified accountant?

https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/questions/doi...
https://expert-comptable-en-ligne.fr/cabinet-comptable/visa-...
https://www.experts-comptables.fr/devenir-expert-comptable/l...

Unless we are missing context, or the source country is not France, such as the DRC?

If we have to avoid "accountant", Daryo's answer is plausible; the "seal of approval". I prefer it with "audited/reviewed by a registered tax preparer with approved status" to "approver".
Francois Boye May 14, 2020:
My point is that a 'viseur fiscal' is an entity (OGAs and Experts comptables in France) authorized by HMRC, IRS or Bercy (The French Ministry of Finance) to authenticate tax returns.

So the translation we are looking for must be the title given to 'viseurs fiscaux' in the UK or the US. The title is tax agent in the UK, and third party authorisee in the US.
ph-b (X) May 14, 2020:
Daryo, About your comment to Adrian’s answer : "this lawyer IS NOT "member" of anything, he's a client of the accountant."

We don’t know the nature or status of this viseur fiscal. They could be accountants or auditors or even an association de gestion agréée (AGA), which the word adhérent (“member”) actually suggests.

In fact, my invoices (like those of the vast majority of independent translators, not to mention a large number of other professions, in France) have this mention: “ Membre d’une association de gestion agréée. Le règlement par chèque est accepté.”, which is incidentally exactly what AllegroTrans’s question says.

As a reference : La mention « Acceptant le règlement des sommes dues par chèques libellés à son nom ou par carte bancaire en sa qualité de membre d'un centre de gestion agréé par l'administration fiscale » ou l'une des trois mentions précisées au I-B-1 § 60, doit être portée dans la correspondance et sur les documents professionnels adressés ou remis aux clients (papier à en-tête, factures, devis, etc.). (From Bulletin officiel des Finances publiques-Impôts here: https://bofip.impots.gouv.fr/bofip/6098-PGP.html)
Daryo May 13, 2020:
Am I seeing ghosts?? Context? This mention:
"adhérent d’un viseur fiscal conventionné"
is at the end of the invoice presented by a lawyer, so a very reasonable assumption would be that THE WHOLE OF "adhérent d’un viseur fiscal conventionné" describes the status of this lawyer i.e. this lawyer "belongs to" / "is part of a group of clients" under the "supervision" of this accountant who's got a status of state approved "viseur fiscal".

Why everyone keeps describing the status of this accountant, while the question is about the status of the accountant's client - the lawyer?
Francois Boye May 13, 2020:
This is the HMRC's document on the matter: https://www.gov.uk/appoint-tax-agent. The US IRS calls this a Third Party Authorization


https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
AllegroTrans (asker) May 12, 2020:
Thanks Reuben I missed that one when I searched. It's a great explanation but tricky to make a "descriptive" ("literal" clearly won't work) translation into English
Reuben Wright May 12, 2020:
This has come up on proz before: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/finance-general...

"Viseur conventionné : Terme désignant le professionnel de l'expertise comptable, signataire d'une convention avec l'administration fiscale, qui accepte de se soumettre à des obligations particulières, notamment en matière de contrôle des comptes et de télétransmission, afin de faire bénéficier ses clients, de l'absence de majoration de 25 % de leur résultat fiscal."
https://www.compta-online.com/mais-est-viseur-conventionne-t...

Reference information:
Cette année apparaît une nouvelle mention, celle de “viseur conventionné”.Cette case n’est à cocher que lorsque le professionnel libéral en cause à recours aux services d’un expert comptable ayant choisi le visa fiscal et en remplissant les conditions.

This is a very French source term/concept, like a "medecin conventionné" they have agreed to adhere to conditions set out by the state (something like "state registered/regulated"). You are most likely going to have to include a translator's note, as I don't believe there is an equivalent phrase in English that will convey the whole meaning.

Proposed translations

+2
13 hrs
Selected

Member of a body Revenue-accredited to certify (sign off) accounts as tax agents

'Has come up before' - but the answer closed with no conclusive answer. Commentators should also note the tenor of the question: no bland rather than blind guesses.

Viseur means a certifier of accounts, namely an agent authorised to sign off accounts that may well have been prepared or audited by someone else in the firm or practice.

UK chartered accountants make the point that they are agents collecting 'tax on behalf of the Inland Revenue / HMRC'. The tax returns they sign off ('viser') are rarely questioned by HMRC tax clerks, except for trivial-to-excessive deductions claimed-
Example sentence:

Notre cabinet d'expertise comptable vous propose une mission de viseur fiscal, vous permettant de bénéficier d'avantages fiscaux. Nous avons signé *une convention avec l’administration fiscale*, nous permettant d’opérer en tant que « Viseur Fisca

Reference:

http://www.bmfiduciaire.fr/fiscal/viseur-fiscal

http://www.gov.uk/appoint-tax-agent

Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X) : Not sure about "body" (isn't there another word?) but agree with the rest, esp. "member" for adhérent if AGA - otherwise "client" (for accredited auditors).
44 mins
Thanks. My first thoughts were a 'a panel-approved business', 'professional practice', 'firm' or 'agency', the latter foreshadowing and linguistically duplicating the underlying status of 'tax agents'-
agree Kalamay Fondzenyuy : Makes sense
5 hrs
Merci and thanks!
neutral Francois Boye : This is the HMRC's document on the matter: https://www.gov.uk/appoint-tax-agent. The US IRS calls this a Third Party Authorization
6 hrs
Maybe you ought to take the same trouble to read my second HMRC weblink instead of replicating such. BTW, this status in the UK is merely called tax agents and not a third-party authorisee.
neutral Daryo : THAT would make perfect sense when applied to the accountant - only problem is the mention is on the invoice of the lawyer who is being "audited" by this accountant // this lawyer IS NOT "member" of anything, he's a client of the accountant.
7 hrs
Membership may well be that of the lawyer's practice that employs in- our out-of-house book-keepers, auditors or accountants to sign off the practice's a/cs. A large firm would have its own 'costs dept.' and even a one-man/woman band an own book-keeper.
agree GILLES MEUNIER
21 hrs
Thanks, merci et wouf-wouf!
disagree Reuben Wright : "tax agent" can also be a relative/friend. A lawyer would use an accountant. Tax agents have not all signed an AGREEMENT with the AGA [approved status], which is what allows their clients to benefit from 25% non-majoration in France.
1 day 11 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
1 hr

member (affiliate) of a tax (financial) sight (or viewfinder) linked with the public (health) sector

A definition of 'adhérent' is 'member'.
A definition of 'un viseur' is 'sight' or 'viewfinder'.
A definition of 'conventionné' is '(doctor or establishment) linked with the public (national or state) health service/sector'.
(Collins dictionary, French-English)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Reuben Wright : Please don't use "tax sight" or "financial viewfinder" on any translation. A kind reminder; the Asker requested no blind guesses. An answer with researched links showing definition/usage is always useful. Happy answering!
2 hrs
neutral Francois Boye : you need to quote French legal documents
2 hrs
disagree Daryo : you just proved that "translating by dictionaries" is of no good, especially in specialised fields ...
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

CPA or CA with approved tax preparer status

"conventionné" means" that they have signed an AGREEMENT with the tax authorities.

Les experts-comptables inscrits au Tableau de l'Ordre peuvent désormais se prévaloir de l'autorisation d'exercer le visa fiscal, au même titre que les centres de gestion agréés (Décret n° 2010-197 du 19 mars 2010).

Par cette mesure, les clients de ces professionnels bénéficient de l'avantage fiscal de non-majoration de 25 % de leur bénéfice imposable (CGI, art. 158-7-1°-.b.).

Le Visa Fiscal comprend trois composantes

Cette mission, non obligatoire, est conditionnée à la signature d'une convention conclue avec l'Administration pour une durée de 3 ans, renouvelable une fois par tacite reconduction pour la même durée.

Nouvelles règles applicables aux experts-comptables conventionnés « viseurs fiscaux »
https://www.l-expert-comptable.com/a/37148-exercice-du-visa-...

Désormais, les viseurs fiscaux ont l’obligation d’effectuer l’examen périodique de sincérité des pièces justificatives de leurs clients ou adhérents, et produire un compte rendu de mission à ces derniers, et transmettre une copie à l’administration.

http://www.infodoc-experts.com/Espace-Fiscal/Actualites/Nouv...

By using these CPA's or CA's you pay less tax.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2020-05-13 02:18:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To become a CTEC registered tax preparer, you must:

Take a 60-hour qualifying education course from a CTEC approved provider within the past 18 months
Purchase a $5,000 tax preparer bond from an insurance/surety agent
Get a Preparer Tax Identification Number (PTIN) from the IRS
Register and pay the $33 registration fee online

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/tax-pros/california-tax-education-cou...
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160322005207/en/Tax...

EFILE is an automated service that allows approved tax preparation service providers and discounters to send individual income tax return information to the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) directly from EFILE–certified tax preparation software.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/...
Taxpayers may take their tax slips and supporting documents to a registered tax preparer and for a fee, the tax preparer will prepare their return and send it to us electronically using EFILE.
Example sentence:

Both the Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and Chartered Accountant (CA) are credentials that you earn through defined study and by passing an examination. The CPA credential is issued solely in the U.S. whereas the CA credential is administered and recog

Reference:

https://www.ais-cpa.com/cpa-vs-ca/

http://www.infodoc-experts.com/Espace-Fiscal/Actualites/Nouvelles-regles-applicables-aux-experts-comptables-conventionnes-viseurs-fiscaux?no

Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : all that is fine but relates to the "viseur fiscal", not to the lawyer on whose invoice appears the term to translate. It's not this lawyer who's got the status of "viseur fiscal conventionné" but their accountant.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
9 hrs

"audited by an approved tax adviser/preparer" // "audited by a registered tax accounts approver"


"adhérent de .." would literally be "member of ..." but it can expressed simply this way:

"audited by an approved tax adviser/preparer"

as "adhérent de .." simply means that this MD is on the list of businesses that are the clients of this "viseur"

The job of a "viseur fiscal conventionné" looks very much like a job of an auditor of company books

-- réaliser un examen périodique de sincérité des pièces justificatives de leurs clients
-- produire un compte rendu de mission à leurs clients, dont une copie devra être transmise à l'administration fiscale.

https://www.legifiscal.fr/actualites-fiscales/1614-nouvelles...

what would also correspond to what they (viseur fiscaux conventionnés) do: "viseur" = donne le visa

"audited by a registered tax accounts approver"

as they are basically giving a "seal of approval" to accounts presented to the taxman by their clients. "viseur" = donne le visa





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2020-05-13 04:51:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

implied: "we are audited by ..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2020-05-13 04:58:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... but it can be expressed ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2020-05-13 15:57:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

this is in a way similar to small companies making a point of having "audited" accounts, even though they are so small that they don't have to have their accounts "audited".

Gives better impression, like businesses below the VAT threshold still registering for VAT.
Peer comment(s):
agree EirTranslations
1 hr
Thanks!
neutral Francois Boye : This is the HMRC's document on the matter: https://www.gov.uk/appoint-tax-agent. The US IRS calls this a Third Party Authorization
9 hrs
it's not comparable - this is some peculiar French invention as these "viseur fiscal" are in fact acting on behalf of the state NOT "representing/acting on behalf of" their clients.
Something went wrong...
2 days 17 hrs

member of a state approved business association or CPA office ....

member of a state approved business association or CPA office with the authority to authenticate tax returns


https://comptabilite.ooreka.fr/astuce/voir/315654/organisme-...

https://www.bmfiduciaire.fr/fiscal/viseur-fiscal

Something went wrong...
2 days 18 hrs

a tax inspector's client who's signed an agreement with the tax authorities

I read part of a document featured above from Reuben Wright (CPA or CP with approved tax preparer status). It explains that 'conventionné' is 'someone who has signed an agreement with the tax authorities'. The same document explains that 'adhérents' may be 'clients'; and that a 'viseur fiscal' is a tax inspector. ("Les viseurs fiscaux ont l'obligation d'effectuer l'examen périodique de sincérité des pièces justificatives de leurs clients ou adhérents, et produire un compte rendu de missions à ces derniers et transmettre une copie à l'administration." )
Example sentence:

Les viseurs fiscaux ont l'obligation d'effectuer l'examen périodique de sincérité des pièces justificatives de leurs clients ou adhérents, et produire un compte rendu de missions à ces derniers et transmettre une copie à l'administration.

Tax regulators must carry out regular inspections on the sincerity of documents as evidence or justification from their clients or members, and produce an account returned from assignments relating to those before, and send a copy to the manager.

Note from asker:
Thanks Lisa but I don't think tax inspectors have clients - they work exclusively for the Revenue, surely?
Something went wrong...