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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

sous réserve de responsabilité, de garantie et de prise en charge

English translation:

subject to liability, warranty and acceptance

Added to glossary by B D Finch
Jan 27, 2015 10:51
9 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term

sous réserve de responsabilité, de garantie et de prise en charge

French to English Bus/Financial Insurance
Insurance claim.

"Vous trouverez, ci-joint le tableau de chiffrage des dommages que nous vous soumettons sur la base des documents justificatifs en notre possession.

Ce chiffrage s’entend sous toute réserve de responsabilité, de garantie et de prise en charge des dommages."

I've done thousands of these types of insurance claims. To such an extent it seems a familiar phrase which must have an equivalent stock phrase in English. But I can't think what it might be. Nor can I find it anywhere "out there" (or in my various books and databases)...

"Sous toute réserve" I read in the sense of "(completely) subject to modification/finalisation of ...", but it's the three terms "responsabilité", "garantie" and "prise en charge" which I'm having difficulty with.
Proposed translations (English)
3 subject to liability, warranty and acceptance
3 +1 (ins. co.) without prejudice to liability, (BrE) cover/(AmE) coverage and adjustment
Change log

Feb 4, 2015 09:26: B D Finch Created KOG entry

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 28, 2015:
Agree with BDF for "subject to liability". More info needed to clarify nature of "garantie" which in terms of the contract (the policy) may be best rendered as "cover". Idem "prise en charge" which may be "acceptance" or "cover". (Client clirificcation needed?)
Mpoma (asker) Jan 27, 2015:
@philgoddard To clarify, this is a fairly simple situation of an insurance company writing to the policy-holder challenging certain "postes de réclamation". My first thought was a bit like your comment: aren't these 3 essentially identical terms listed together for no particular reason? But I think BD Finch's answers explain how this is not so... (I find them convincing anyway).
Charlie Bavington Jan 27, 2015:
fair points Indeed, when I referred to "you", it was merely in the context that a certain informality of style seemed to have been adopted & you might be able to get away with it yourself. It would be rash to assume that all the "yous" are the same party at this point :-)

Take my "you" as = the claimant (insured or policyholder, which may or may not be one and the same, of course), and I still reckon it's got legs. But as my colleagues point out, it may not be the same "you" as the party finding the attached table :-)
Laura Harrison Jan 27, 2015:
who indeed? I agree with philgoddard. Who is the costing of the damage/loss from? The insured, the insurer, a loss adjsuter, a potential repairer?
Charlie Bavington Jan 27, 2015:
in layman's terms Ok, so it seems clear that what they are trying to say is that you ain't gonna get nothin' if it wasn't your fault, or you weren't insured for it, or you're not out of pocket (prise en charge in the sense of bearing the cost of something).

I always struggle with nouns for "prise en charge" and, given they have used "you", you could switch it slightly and make the above sound more formal - these estimates apply only in the event you are held to be responsible for, are insured for and have paid for the damage suffered" - something like that.

There must be some boilerplate out there that means that, though :)
philgoddard Jan 27, 2015:
Who is writing to whom?
It sounds like they're saying "subject to acceptance of liability" in three different ways, like lawyers do.
Mpoma (asker) Jan 27, 2015:
Thanks OK thanks for that clarification.
It's not clear precisely what the nature of the insured peril was. Some "enzymes" (probably agricultural) seem to have been involved. May have been a warehouse fire or some such. "Subject always..." is also good, thanks.
Charlie Bavington Jan 27, 2015:
What is being insured? Like you, I'm inclined to think that "garantie" is the (scope of the) cover/insurance itself. But I suppose if there was a warranty involved in the mix (in the sense of guarantee), we couldn't rule it out.

(It is unfortunate, then, that BDF's reference for warranty is misleading, as that is warranty in the sense of a representation, an assertion or statement, not in the sense of financial compensation for malfunction within a period of time.)

"Subject always to..." is one fairly standard way of rendering sous toute réserve that could work here.

Proposed translations

50 mins
Selected

subject to liability, warranty and acceptance

Not aware of any stock phrase in English, but think this might cover it.

balerparts.co.uk/terms.php
22 May 2014 - Should you consider a product defective please notify us immediately. Our warranty procedure will be invoked and subject to the manufacturer accepting liability ...

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Note added at 52 mins (2015-01-27 11:43:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

www.forge-europa.co.uk/.../The_LED_Killer_Nobody_Wants_to_T...
No representation, warranty, responsibility or liability is or will be accepted by ... subject to Forge Europa Limited's General Terms and Conditions of trading ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-01-27 12:01:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Having just read the doc in my LED Killer ref. above, I recommend reading it if you use LED lighting. I don't understand the technicalities, but it looks scary.

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-01-27 12:10:22 GMT)
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Liability could result from either statutory rights or warranty provisions. The warranty (or guarantee) might cover an event, but liability might not be accepted if the customer has in some way invalidated the cover.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2015-01-27 13:47:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looking at it again, I realise that I was making an assumption about a warranty or guarantee being involved, which might not be the case here. I'm used to dealing with insurance-backed warranties for construction work.
Note from asker:
thanks... "acceptance" is a choice I'd considered without feeling very confident about it - your learned endorsement helps! I'd thought of "cover" for "garantie". In fact I should have given a bit more context: I'm not sure what the claim is about, but it might be a warehouse fire or similar. Still not sure what the real difference might be between "subject to liability" and "subject to warranty/cover"... but there you go.
Thanks for that great explanation: it's really cleared things up for me. If you can spare another minute to explain the reason why you prefer "warranty/guarantee" here to "cover" (for garantie) that'd be perfect: is it sthg along the lines of a "warranty" being a legal instrument and "cover" being the fact of that instrument being applicable?
Peer comment(s):
neutral Albena Dimitrova : prise en charge = coverage
13 mins
That would be "cover", not "coverage". The latter is what is provided by a TV news programme or your make-up. But no, warranty cover is not the same as "prise en charge", which is acceptance that a specific claim is covered.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks... I put "cover" for garantie in the end"
+1
1 day 5 hrs
French term (edited): sous réserve de responsabilité, de garantie et de prise en charge

(ins. co.) without prejudice to liability, (BrE) cover/(AmE) coverage and adjustment

If this is the ins. co. though I agree with B.D.Finch that a warranty can be given both by the ins.co. and the supplier of goods.

BTW, coverage - though commoner in the US for insurance, is also used at llyods of London.
Example sentence:

Insurance adjustment, the settlement of an insurance claim; the determination for the purposes of a settlement of the amount of a claim, particularly a claim against an insurance company, giving consideration to objections made by the debtor or insurance

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_contracts/1868558-prise_en_charge.html

http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/prise%20en%20charge

Peer comment(s):
agree Cinnamon Guignard : age to without prejudice to liability, coverage and adjustments
35 mins
Thanks. I was sure coverage was OK in the US.
Something went wrong...
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