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Le lot de prise en main
à moindre frais
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Apr 29, 2013 13:48
11 yrs ago
French term

décolérés des marchés

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general)
I can't seem to find a translation for "décolérer" other than "to calm down/cease being angry". I have no idea what it means in this context.

Ayant peu de capacités de transport transfrontalier de gaz et électricité, les prix italiens restent très décolérés des marchés Nord européens.

Thank you for your help.
Proposed translations (English)
5 +2 very uncorrelated prices / very weakly linked prices
4 +1 Italian prices do not at all stick any close to those on Northern European markets
4 show no correlation with the ... markets
3 at odds with those on the (northern European) markets
4 -3 very furious

Discussion

Rebecca Elliott (asker) Apr 30, 2013:
Apologies for closing this question without grading. It seems that it was a typo and should have read "décorréler". Thank you all for your input.
Marie-Helene Dubois Apr 30, 2013:
@Peter Indeed. It's always fun to discuss things with fellow translators. It is a shame that the asker wasn't more enlightening regarding the final decision made though. It would have been interesting to see how this tricky phrase situation was resolved or whether the client responded that it was a typo.
Jane Proctor (X) Apr 30, 2013:
@ asker Frustrating not to have a reason for closing this question. Intrigued. Was it a typo? And if so, what for pls?
Peter LEGUIE Apr 30, 2013:
@ Marie Helene Great! This was a most stimulating debate. Mais la traduction n'est pas une science exacte. Your comments were very rewarding for me.
Marie-Helene Dubois Apr 30, 2013:
Yes I do I've just put forward a suggestion and seen the question has in the meantime been closed for 'other' reasons. I understand the logic behind using 'sticking' but I would have opted for 'being in line with' rather than the actual word 'sticking' in this context. It doesn't sound wholly natural to me to talk about prices sticking to those of other markets, although it is only my humble opinion and there is never any right or wrong with these things.
Peter LEGUIE Apr 30, 2013:
@ Marie Helene Okay. Would you agree if I said that it would have helped considerably if the asker had checked the typo to begin with? My thought was "coller/décoller", therefore "sticking" which might indeed sound a little familiar.
Marie-Helene Dubois Apr 30, 2013:
@Peter I don't think I would use the word 'sticking' at all in this type of register. I can't help thinking that the sentence needs to be restructured.
Peter LEGUIE Apr 30, 2013:
Actually, I thought that "décollé" would have the same meaning as "non alignés sur" and thus suggested "sticking close to" Things are indeed a bit different if "décorréler" is preferred.
Jane Proctor (X) Apr 30, 2013:
or décorréler yes, why not... both give rise to the same interpretation. As for the use of "tracking", I disagree. It's perfectly normal to talk about a component of an indice tracking the index, or any smaller market instrument tracking a larger one. We used the term all the time in that context when I worked in the City.
Daryo Apr 30, 2013:
Apart from the rather obvious inversion décolérés / décorélés, the option that would make sense it the word was missing altogether is to say that prices for the same product are more or less correlated.
In a market economy prices for the same product don't "track" each other - that would imply one supplier deliberately following prices of other suppliers and it's got a nasty name - price cartel / cartel pricing.
What happens when there is a good interconnection between neighbouring markets is a strong mutual influence on prices that makes them moves the same way - creates a strong correlation.
Or conversely if there's a limited mutual influence ("peu de capacités de transport") the correlation becomes weak - prices are uncorrelated.
Jane Proctor (X) Apr 29, 2013:
yes Peter's typo suggestion makes sense. In any case décolérer is normally deployed in the negative. But Peter's answer needs reworking IMO along the lines of "there is still a wide spread/divergence between ..." or "Italian prices don't track..."
Peter LEGUIE Apr 29, 2013:
Addendum Italian prices "remain" apart, of course.
Peter LEGUIE Apr 29, 2013:
Décolérés means that temper has boiled down (the opposite of "very furious"). Could this possibly be a typo for "décollés", implying that Italian prices apart, for logistic reasons. Just a vague idea.

Proposed translations

-3
1 hr

very furious

Could be!
Peer comment(s):
disagree Kim Metzger : http://translate.google.com/#en/fr/very furious
48 mins
disagree writeaway : http://translate.google.com/#fr/en/décoléré unfortunately this answer makes no sense whatsoever in the context.
3 hrs
disagree SafeTex : Prices that get 'furious'?
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

Italian prices do not at all stick any close to those on Northern European markets

If my comments about a possible typo are correct.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : on the right track, but there's a far shorter version
30 mins
Okay, you are probably thinking of "sans corrélation" which also fits in well.
agree Pa La : I agree it looks like a typo and the main idea is that Italian prices do not track or are different from those elsewhere in Europe
2 hrs
Thank you!
neutral SafeTex : even if the typo idea is correct, the English expression doesn't really fit. "Stick close to a person for protection , a script, or stick to the truth is ok but prices ?
3 hrs
neutral Jane Proctor (X) : right idea, wrongly expressed / "do not at all stick any close to" isn't proper English. Also "in (the)" for "on"
14 hrs
neutral Marie-Helene Dubois : Someone writing in English would never write "do not at all stick any close to".
15 hrs
Yes, and what if I added "to anything" close to..?, considering I intended to convey "s'aligner sur". The fundamental issue may be describing market practices, as Daryo explained.
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs
French term (edited): les prix ... très décorélés

very uncorrelated prices / very weakly linked prices

obvious typo
it's not the markets that are "décolérés" - loosing their fury (even allowing for a showelful of poetic licence) - but the local prices that are "décorélés" i.e. uncorrelated. (a spelling-checker is not a nonsense-checker - that's what humans are for...)

"Ayant peu de capacités de transport transfrontalier de gaz et électricité, les prix italiens restent très dé-corélés des marchés Nord européens."

there's a weak link between the prices in Italy and in the North of Europe - cheaper energy next door is no competition to the local suppliers if there's only a limited possibility to get hold of that cheaper energy. Thus the local prices in Italy and the North of Europe have little cross influence - they are weakly linked i.e. uncorrelated.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2013-04-30 03:03:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"... les prix italiens restent très décorélés des marchés Nord européens."

"... (energy) prices in Italy remain highly uncorrelated to those in the North of Europe"

or what sounds more natural to me:

"... (energy) prices in Italy remain very loosely correlated to those in the North of Europe"

Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : assuming that it is a typo as suggested (makes sense). however these are definitely not the only two ways to put it into English, which is what a 100% CL conveys
1 hr
CL5 means I'm 100% sure it's correct, not that's the only option
agree SafeTex : "Uncorrelated" is spot on. Maybe 'highly' or 'loosely' as an adverb if I may say so
3 hrs
tricky one: "highly" is more usually paired with "correlated"/"loosely" is "pushing the wrong way round" makes it less uncorrelated. "Very" doesn't sound perfect either, agree on that.
neutral Jane Proctor (X) : yes for the meaning, but not for the expression. IMO yr phrase needs reworking along the lines of "Italian prices are not closely correlated/linked to..."
14 hrs
Can be improved, agree on that.
neutral B D Finch : "Décorrélés"? And was that a showerful or a shovelful of poetic licence? I'd agree, but there is a very important difference between correlation and linkage. There cannot be degrees of non-correlation.//Non-correlated = no covariance. Degrees of 0?
16 hrs
there cannot be degrees of non-correlation? eh... in fact they can be and are: from a graphical representation that's a perfect line to a random fuzzy cloud…and expressed in numbers it's called covariance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covariance
agree philgoddard
46 days
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

at odds with those on the (northern European) markets

I would say that this is a typo in the text for 'decorrélé' although I've never seen this word in use in French. It seems to be the only conclusion that makes sense in the context though. It looks as though the text should be saying something along the lines of: "Italian prices continue not to correlate with those of the northern European markets", although this sounds a little unnatural in English.

I think I would make this "Italian prices continue to be at odds with those on the northern European markets" or you could also use "Italian prices continue to be inconsistent with those ..." or even "there continues to be a disparity between Italian prices and those on the northern European markets".
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

show no correlation with the ... markets

Either they are correlated with the N. European markets or they are not. The correlation, if it exists, might be strong, slight, or minimal. However, there can be no degrees of non-correlation, so "very uncorrelated" is nonsense.

Also, note that correlation only means that there is a statistical relationship between the two sets of figures. It says nothing about causality, so "linkage" is best avoided.
Something went wrong...
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