Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
intervenir à partir – ou à l’encontre -
English translation:
build on...or go against
Added to glossary by
mimi 254
Mar 18, 2010 08:41
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
intervenir à partir – ou à l’encontre -
French to English
Other
Architecture
"Nous travaillons aujourd’hui sur les constructions héritées du Mouvement Moderne et de ses produits dérivés, et devons intervenir à partir –ou à l’encontre- de ces éléments hérités."
This is a text about what we should be teaching today's architecture students. I am flummoxed by the intervenir à partir de - ou à l'encontre - de ces éléments hérités. Any ideas? thanks v much.
This is a text about what we should be teaching today's architecture students. I am flummoxed by the intervenir à partir de - ou à l'encontre - de ces éléments hérités. Any ideas? thanks v much.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Mar 23, 2010 13:15: mimi 254 Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
33 mins
Selected
build on...or start afresh
something like that
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Note added at 39 mins (2010-03-18 09:20:09 GMT)
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or build on ...or go against
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Note added at 39 mins (2010-03-18 09:20:09 GMT)
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or build on ...or go against
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
John Detre
: I like "build on," works particularly well in an architectural context, but not "start afresh"; the point is you can't, modernism is so pervasive you can't just ignore it, you have to be pro or con. How about "we must build on or respond to this legacy"?
2 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank all, this came the closest to what I used in the end. "
6 mins
Liliane Hatem
Lebanon
Lebanon
Native in English
Lebanon
Fast and reliable
Native in: English 
, Arabic
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English, Arabic to French, and 3 more.
starting from...or against
linguistics
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Note added at 18 mins (2010-03-18 09:00:02 GMT)
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starting from these inherited elements or working against them
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Note added at 20 mins (2010-03-18 09:01:35 GMT)
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sorry, work not working
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Note added at 18 mins (2010-03-18 09:00:02 GMT)
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starting from these inherited elements or working against them
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Note added at 20 mins (2010-03-18 09:01:35 GMT)
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sorry, work not working
Note from asker:
| Hi Liliane, I'm not sure we would say "today, we are working on constructions inherited from the Modern Movement...and we must intervene starting from, or against these inherited elements." Could you demonstrate how it might fit into the sentence? |
28 mins
HugoSteckel
Switzerland
Switzerland
Native in English
Specializes in field
Switzerland
Sport, tourism and marketing expert
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US) 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Catalan to English, and 1 more.
work from/act on the basis of these inherited principles, and in dialogue with them
I think this is what it means
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: I think this is the overall gist (ie not against/contrary to) but don't see how there can be a dialogue with 'ces éléments hérités'
34 mins
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hmm, I see your point. Maybe it can be phrased in a way to suggest dialogue with those who have bequested the principles. I don't think it can quite mean contrary to the principles.
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| neutral |
Alan Douglas (X)
: I agee with writeaway's comment : 'dialogue' doesn't feature anywhere in the original.
44 mins
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"dialogue" is a standard academic term for the relationship with a movement and its purveyors. Whilst I agree that dialogue with a principle is not necessarily the right way to put this, I disagree that the notion of dialogue is absent from the original
|
28 mins
Sergio Guerbilsky
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Native in French
&
English
Specializes in field
Russian Federation
Professional
Native in: English , French
Works in: Russian to English, French to English
in accordance or contrary to
...and we must act in accordance or contrary to these inherited elements.
32 mins
Catharine Cellier-Smart
Reunion
Reunion
Native in English
Reunion
The Smart Solution
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English, Creoles & Pidgins (French-based Other) to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
our teaching should be based on - or (should be) contrary to - these inherited elements
This is my understanding of the sentence.
I might have got the wrong end of the stick here, but I think they mean that you can't get around it, their teaching will always have to be either based on the Modern Movement, or spun off at a tangent from it; in any case the Modern Movement is so important that you can't ignore it even if you don't agree with it, you will have teach it even if it is to disagree with it later.
see also
"Although there is debate as to when and why the decline of the modern movement occurred, criticism of Modern architecture began in the 1960s on the grounds that it was universal, sterile, elitist and lacked meaning. Its approach had become ossified in a "style" that threatened to degenerate into a set of mannerisms"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture
I might have got the wrong end of the stick here, but I think they mean that you can't get around it, their teaching will always have to be either based on the Modern Movement, or spun off at a tangent from it; in any case the Modern Movement is so important that you can't ignore it even if you don't agree with it, you will have teach it even if it is to disagree with it later.
see also
"Although there is debate as to when and why the decline of the modern movement occurred, criticism of Modern architecture began in the 1960s on the grounds that it was universal, sterile, elitist and lacked meaning. Its approach had become ossified in a "style" that threatened to degenerate into a set of mannerisms"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture
57 mins
follow on from, or indeed argue against,
One way of expressing this:
our work has to follow on from, or indeed argue against, these inherited principles/ideas
our work has to follow on from, or indeed argue against, these inherited principles/ideas
+1
1 hr
starting from - or in oposition to -
The alternatives are an intervention which starts from, and works with, the Modern Movement buidings and one which sets itself in oposition or in deliberate contrast to those same buildings with a deliberately contemporary addition or extension. In order to avoid pastiche, modern conservation theory and practice would would tend to favour the former for refurbishment and repair, the latter for significant new works.
"Working with - or in contrast to -" is another possibility to express the same concept.
"Working with - or in contrast to -" is another possibility to express the same concept.
1 day 5 hrs
(One) must act by ... to meet with/towards...
...devons intervenir à partir... The author pauses here omitting ''de'' as in intervenir à partir (de) etc,= One must act/perform – ou à l’encontre- de ces éléments hérités." to meet with...
Also towards the...
Also towards the...
Discussion