The poor in spirit

English translation: humble people

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

English term or phrase:	The poor in spirit
Selected answer:	humble people
Entered by:	chevirmen

09:59 Feb 23, 2007

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Religion

English term or phrase: The poor in spirit

Dear Colleagues,
Does this phrase mean people with faith or vice versa?

Thanks in advance

chevirmen KudoZ activity Questions: 21 (none open) (6 closed without grading) Answers: 621 Türkiye
Local time: 12:48

humble people

Explanation:
That's why the Bible says, blessed are the poor in spirit. They don't puff themselves up.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-02-23 11:04:12 GMT)
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If you rearrange the order of the sentence, the meaning becomes more clear: The poor are blessed in spirit (not in material things).

Selected response from:

Refugio
Local time: 02:48

Grading comment

Thank you very much for your assistance.
Based on this, I have checked further and find this link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humility
which covers the meaning.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

4 +5

humble people

Refugio

3 +4

people humble enough to feel their faith is not strong enough, thus wanting to have more faith

Kirill Semenov

broken (broken-hearted or broken spirit)

Deborah Workman

3 +1

The poor in spirit know that God is more important than anything else in life

Arkadi Burkov

2 +2

having the awareness and knowledge of our spiritual poverty as human beings

Caryl Swift

5 -1

ye, of little faith

airmailrpl

toshe of simple, uncomplicated faith

Alfredo Tutino

People with weak faith

Jack Doughty

3 -2

Less religious people

Jason Ma

3 -2

those with little faith

Mwananchi

Discussion entries: 12

Richard Benham

France

11:35 Feb 27, 2007

For a long time I assumed the "poor in spirit" were stupid (in many languages the same word is used for "spirit" as for "mind", after all). But just now I checked the Greek original, and found it is literally "poor in breath".

chevirmen

Türkiye

ASKER

12:14 Feb 23, 2007

http://www.angelfire.com/il/Nalapralaya/Meaningof4Books1.htm
I also find this site for further reference, I believe this will settle the meaning.

TonyTK

11:50 Feb 23, 2007

I think the most you can hope for is an overview of the different ways in which this phrase is interpreted. Even leading Christian scholars fail to agree on its meaning. It's probably even debatable whether Jesus actually used these words – in view of the repeated re-translation of the phrase and the fact that it was only recorded several generations after he died/disappeared.

Valeska Maier-Wörz

11:26 Feb 23, 2007

New opion: If most English speakers intuitively understand "with weak/little faith", that´s probably what the author wanted to say...
(In Germany the phrase is commonly understood as "stupid", although this is far from the real meaning...)

Caryl Swift

Poland

10:57 Feb 23, 2007

Please see the note I've added to my answer (added there, rather than here, because of the space restriction here) :-)

TonyTK

10:55 Feb 23, 2007

It's those damn translators again. http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_27.htm (and many others).

Matthias Quaschning-Kirsch

Germany

10:52 Feb 23, 2007

What about some more context, then? Unfortunately, you removed your first turkish-english question where you gave a longer quote from the text.

chevirmen

Türkiye

ASKER

10:44 Feb 23, 2007

I believe so, I have proposed such meaning due to the sense of the story, the poor people lacking regular living. Yet, as it consists of some elements, church, priest in the course of the events, we couldn't be sure.

Valeska Maier-Wörz

10:34 Feb 23, 2007

Could it be, that the author of the story did not care for the "theologic" meaning at all, but really wanted to say "the poor", or "needy persons"?

chevirmen

Türkiye

ASKER

10:23 Feb 23, 2007

The complete sentence is as follows;
(The priests) they had gone to see the poor in spirit in nearby villages. It is a story, that a man wants to marry a girl, and kidnaps a priest from a church. Yet, the priest is not actually a priest, but a guest. The story goes on...

Valeska Maier-Wörz

10:19 Feb 23, 2007

Please check for the numerous interpretations of the phrase "poor in spirit" on the web or elsewhere. IMHO it does not relate primarily to "faith" at all...

liz askew

United Kingdom

10:03 Feb 23, 2007

It means those with very little faith - and there's a few of those around today aren't there?

Answers

3 mins confidence:

the poor in spirit People with weak faith

Explanation:
*

Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:48
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 71

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -2

the poor in spirit Less religious people

Explanation:
just for suggestion

Jason Ma
China
Local time: 17:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Chinese

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

9 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

the poor in spirit people humble enough to feel their faith is not strong enough, thus wanting to have more faith

Explanation:
There are many possible interpretations of the famous quote:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

http://www.gospeltruth.net/1844OE/441204_poor_in_spirit.htm

In any case, I don't think they are people of little faith, otherwise they would not belong to the Kingdom of heaven.

Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 12:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Russian
PRO pts in category: 11

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thus, this means that they have quite faith to be humble, and reach a higher level of faith?

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Valeska Maier-Wörz: plenty of possible meanings but NOT weak in faith...

2 mins

neutral

Matthias Quaschning-Kirsch: It means people with nothing but faith.//That's why I did not disagree. I just say that your suggestion does not match the very peak of what Jesus wanted to say.

4 mins

-> There are A LOT of possible interpretations. Yours is one of them. ;-) + Matthias, I just don't really pretend that I know perfectly what Jesus wanted to say.

agree

David Knowles: The reference is very helpful. People "proud in spirit" think they can manage without God, but people "poor in spirit" know they can't.

20 mins

-> Hello David :) yes, the explanation at the link is detailed and logical enough - still, again, just one of many possible interpretations, because the biblical phrase sounds rather "paradoxical"

agree

Valery Kaminski: For 2000 years people have been trying to interprete the meaning behind these words

6 hrs

agree

Nik-On/Off

1 day 23 hrs

12 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -2

the poor in spirit those with little faith

Explanation:
Not spiritually motivated.

Mwananchi
Kenya
Local time: 12:48
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Swahili

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

12 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

the poor in spirit The poor in spirit know that God is more important than anything else in life

Explanation:
Poor in Spirit means acknowledging God's ownership of everything and that we are responsible to be good stewards of those things with which we have be blessed. Our attitude should be one of faithful servants and not one of pride, envy, lust, and gluttony. We are called to use what we have and are given to provide for ourself and serve God's people.
http://stobie.home.sprynet.com/religion/PoorInSpirit.htm

http://www.silk.net/RelEd/beatitudespoor.htm

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Note added at 19 mins (2007-02-23 10:18:41 GMT)
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"Blessed are the poor in spirit ... This refers to those who rely on God, putting their lives in God's hands and trusting in God's love for them. To be poor in spirit means to depend on God for everything. It means asking God for anything, at any time, knowing that God will respond. It means that we do not despair, but rather recognize our poverty and the need for God in our life. Worrying becomes obsolete because we believe that all things are possible with God." -- from St. Ignatius, Martyr, Church - Beatitudes Homily - Fr. Joe Tomei, CSC
This one comes from the source posted above

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Note added at 40 mins (2007-02-23 10:40:37 GMT)
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I don't think these people actually set themselves the goal of reaching a higher level of faith, enlightenment (or whatever you may call it). These are the people who feel fully dependent on God, who have their trust in God and believe God is more important than anything else. These are the true believers, humble and not trying to establish a give-and-take relationship with God. But I think the sources you may find by visiting http://www.silk.net/RelEd/beatitudespoor.htm will give you a better understanding of this phrase.

Arkadi Burkov
Belarus
Local time: 12:48
Native speaker of: Russian

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thus, this means that they have quite faith to be humble, and reach a higher level of faith?

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

13 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

the poor in spirit having the awareness and knowledge of our spiritual poverty as human beings

Explanation:
I'm basing this answer on the assumption that you're asking about the phrase from the Bible "Blessed are the poor in spirit". If that's not the case, then I apologise.

It always puzzled me - how could one be blessed for having spiritual emptiness? Wouldn't that rather be a curse?

Here's the beginning of quite an interesting piece on the topic:
1. To have a realizing sense of our spiritual state. In this it is implied that we understand our own guilt and helplessness, and realize as a practical fact our own utter emptiness by nature of every thing good, and of any tendency to that which is good. It is one thing to hold this in theory, and another thing to be heartily sensible of the humbling fact. Most professing Christians admit in words that they are in themselves wholly helpless and destitute, but to know and feel as an abiding practical conviction that this is their true spiritual condition how few are able!

2. Being poor in spirit implies that we see in its true light the tendency in us to every thing evil--that we understand that the habitudes of our minds, that our appetites and propensities, that nearly the whole power of the sensibility continually tends to selfishness."

You can find the rest at http://tinyurl.com/2necf6

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Note added at 17 mins (2007-02-23 10:17:12 GMT)
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This is also quite enlightening:

http://tinyurl.com/2qoq8z

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Note added at 56 mins (2007-02-23 10:56:00 GMT)
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In view of your notes above, could the author have used it to suggest that the people were poor, but were also humble and faithful. I just wonder - if (s)he had simply had their physical poverty in mind, why use the phrase "poor in spirit" - why not simply "... had gone to see the poor in nearby villages"?

Caryl Swift
Poland
Local time: 11:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

the poor in spirit

humble people

Refugio
Local time: 02:48
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

Grading comment

Thank you very much for your assistance.
Based on this, I have checked further and find this link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humility
which covers the meaning.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

William [Bill] Gray: I have always understood the words of Jesus in this way, but of course, he is not the only one to use this phrase. So it't NOT primarily religious, IMO, but primarily and attitude of heart, which for many people will be emotional/psychological/social.

18 mins

-> Thanks, Bill

agree

Armorel Young: I entirely agree with Bill - that is how I see it, and certainly nothing to do with "levels" of faith.

1 hr

-> Right, it isn't about faith. Thanks, Armorel.

agree

claudia bagnardi: As simple as that. Cheers, Ruth!

3 hrs

-> Thanks, Claudia!

agree

Mehmet Hascan: humble and trusting in God.

5 hrs

-> Thank you, Mehmet

agree

Alfa Trans (X)

3 days 9 hrs

-> Thanks, Marju

neutral

Richard Benham: Well I can't venture an opinion, but, having just checked out the Greek, and I can say the word translated as "spirit", "pneuma", is literally "breath". So maybe they are too short of breath to puff themselves up!

4 days

-> Nice. Thanks, Richard. Well, actually, your etymological excursion does reinforce my statement that this phrase does not refer to faith.

1 hr confidence:

the poor in spirit toshe of simple, uncomplicated faith

Explanation:
Without venturing in theology, I can say that at least in our catholic, Italian tradition, many intellectuals use this phrase from the gospels to denote (and connote) simple people, usually but not necessarily poor in wordly goods, whose faith knows not of the soul-searching doubts of the learned and the intellectual, but is just the unquestioned foundation of life.

There may be sometimes an overtone of irony or even scorn; but more often the implication is simply one of distance from the writer (who cannot but be an intellectual) or even mourning for the loss of such pristine innocence

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-02-23 11:08:47 GMT)
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of course, THOSE, not "toshe" - please excuse me

Alfredo Tutino
Local time: 11:48
Native speaker of:

Italian

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

9 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

the poor in spirit ye, of little faith

Explanation:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

O ye, of little faith

Meaning

This is the rebuke levelled at the disciples of Christ, when seeming to doubt his divinity. The phrase is also more widely used to describe any Christian doubter. In a secular setting it may be intended as a humorous jibe when doubting someone's abilities.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/262250.html

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Note added at 33 mins (2007-02-23 10:33:15 GMT)
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Origin

There are several places in the Bible in which this phrase is used with reference to those who demonstrate their lack of faith in Jesus' power to perform miracles. Here are a few examples, all from the King James Version:

Luke 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Luke 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
Matthew 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:30 But when he [Peter] saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

In the 17th century the state of insufficient faith was of common enough interest to be given a name - petty fidianism. John Trapp, in his Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (1647), recorded the term:

"O ye of little faith. Ye petty fidians; He calleth them not nullifidians."

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Note added at 43 mins (2007-02-23 10:43:35 GMT)
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Matthew 5:3

Arthur W. Pink, in his commentary on the Sermon on the Mount, writes, "Poverty of spirit may be termed the negative side of faith" (p. 17).
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerse...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-02-23 16:57:58 GMT)
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Now this is precisely the perception of Unity or Union (Ar. wahdah) of the Sufis, which is achieved through (spiritual) poverty (faqr). ‘Poverty is my pride,’ said Mohammed, yet at another time he remarked: ‘Poverty is blackness of face (i.e., a disgrace).’ It’s clear that he’s speaking about two different kinds of poverty: spiritual poverty in the first case and material poverty in the second. And what does Jesus say to that? ‘Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven’ (Matthew 5:3). The explanation and the explained fit each other like hand and glove.

“This goes to show that only a mystical, Sufic interpretation will explain some of Jesus’ sayings. But we can’t all be mystics, so that door will remain
“That book ends with the sentence: ‘Once there was a rose. Now, there is only its name,’“ said the sage. “Do you have any idea what this rose is?”

“No.”

“It is Jesus,” the sage continued. “And every prophet is a rose. Moses, Jesus, Mohammed are all roses. The saints in a religion are roses, too, but lesser roses than its prophet.

“The reason that we cannot smell the fragrance of Jesus is that his term is over. His time is up.”
http://www.angelfire.com/il/Nalapralaya/Meaningof4Books1.htm

airmailrpl
Brazil
Local time: 06:48
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

1 day 16 hrs confidence:

the poor in spirit broken (broken-hearted or broken spirit)

Explanation:
Here is a sermon that provides an excellent explanation of the term, which originates with the Beatitudes. www.tumseattle.org/sermons_pdf/sermon092406.pdf It says:

Sept. 24, 2006
Matthew 5:3 Luke 4:14-19
BREAK US OPEN
As we enter the Sermon on the Mount we are entering into the core of Jesus’ teachings. But right here, at the entry point, we are stopped and stunned and we stall before moving forward. Blessed are who, the poor in spirit? It doesn’t make sense. To be blessed is to be “favored”; it is to be filled with a sense of wonder and joy. But to be poor in spirit is to be disillusioned, diminished, disappointed, depressed, discouraged, down-hearted, broken-hearted. Why would Jesus say that the poor in spirit are favored by God? How is a broken spirit “good news”? If the reign of God starts at this point, who in their right mind, would want in?

and it says further:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the reign of God. That is, for in them God is present on earth; in them God rebuilds and repairs and recreates the world; in them God’s favor is found, in them God’s activity is made manifest. But this strikes us as odd.

The point is that if you are broken you are in a condition in which you can receive and know God's blessings. When you have everything you need and are satisfied, you are less likely to be aware of any need and therefore you are less teachable and less open to receiving God's blessings.

The point of the Beatitude isn't necessary for the story you are working with, but this is the background/meaning of the phrase you are asking about.

Deborah Workman
United States
Local time: 05:48
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you very much for your efforts.

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The poor in spirit

English translation: humble people

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