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Suddenly a tropical storm broke ....
see the other show drop
Sep 3, 2006 16:12
17 yrs ago
English term

Such is God's will to celebrate His glory in His memory

English Art/Literary Religion
This is my attempt at rendering a sentence coming from a 19-th century church painting (Roman Catholic). I'd like to know what you think of it and if it could be improved or changed in any way. It's supposed to be in Biblical, slightly archaic style. Any ideas are welcome!
Responses
4 it is God's will that we celebrate his glory in remembrance of him
4 Such is God's will: that we celebrate His glory in memory of Him
3 Difficult without more context

Discussion

Ken Cox Sep 4, 2006:
Agree with Armorel's last suggestion above. Good English and good sense.
allp (asker) Sep 3, 2006:
The original Polish phrase is "Taka jest wola Boża, aby się chwała Jego na pamiątkę odprawiała..." I posted this question as Eng-Eng in order for native speakers of English to evaluate the sound and feel of the phrase.
Nicholas Ferreira Sep 3, 2006:
If you give us the original Polish phrase, or better yet, create a new entry for Polish-English translation of the phrase, maybe myself or one of the other translators would be able to help you out more.
Armorel Young Sep 3, 2006:
Sorry, should have read your note more thoroughly before posting!
Armorel Young Sep 3, 2006:
Why don't you use 'It is God's will that His glory be celebrated in this place, in remembrance of Him'? I don't think that can be improved upon - and having "in this place" means that it makes much more sense.
allp (asker) Sep 3, 2006:
Yes, the sentence is part of the painting and it's in Polish. Here's the story behind it: in 1645 a certain cooper, while going to church, had a vision of the Virgin Mary, holding in her hands two lit candles and accompanied by two angels. And these are the exact words that she said to him: 'It is God's will that His glory be celebrated in this place, in remembrance of Him'. Later the place became famous for many miracles and eventually a church was erected there. The painting is in the church, it comes from the early 19th century and it presents the scene of the vision: Virgin Mary, a kneeling man and two angels, plus the words, but without the phrase "in this place".
Armorel Young Sep 3, 2006:
Ruth is right - the word used in the Mass is remembrance, not memory. Is this actually a translation of something in the painting? If so, from what language?
Refugio Sep 3, 2006:
be celebrated ... you cannot mix tenses
allp (asker) Sep 3, 2006:
Armorel: it's just one sentence, sort of a caption to the painting. Slightly paraphrasing: "It's God's will that His glory were celebrated in memory (of Him)". Just that. As for the memory, at least here, in Poland, the Catholic Mass and Communion are said to be celebrated "in memory of Christ" - meaning, I suppose, in memory of Christ's stay on earth, as such was His wish expressed at the Last Supper. But maybe there's a better way of saying it in English.

Responses

1 hr
Selected

it is God's will that we celebrate his glory in remembrance of him

+

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-09-03 17:28:36 GMT)
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You really can't use "such" without an antecedent.

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-09-03 18:05:25 GMT)
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The fact that the words are spoken by the Virgin Mary puts things in a new light. Is the caption in Polish? Does "God" refer to Jesus? More info needed: a description of what is going on in the painting would help.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2006-09-03 19:57:14 GMT)
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In that case, maybe the His refers to Jesus: It is God's will that the glory of Jesus be celebrated in this place, in remembrance of Him.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2006-09-04 03:39:17 GMT)
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You need to take this to Polish-English in order to get the polished English you want.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Ruth! Now, I would like to avoid "us", as I supppose the words are spoken by Virgin Mary who is in the picture. Which is better - "that His glory was celebrated" or "were celebrated"? Or maybe "be celebrated"?
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, everybody!"
18 mins

Difficult without more context

It's difficult to say a great deal without having at least the preceding sentence, in order to see what "such" refers to. But I have to say that I find the phrase "in His memory" rather strange - to describe something as being in memory of someone normally implies that that person has died, but since God is eternal and doesn't die the phrase sits rather oddly here.
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1 hr

Such is God's will: that we celebrate His glory in memory of Him

Seems to me to have the necessary slightly old-fashoined ingredient to it; and I think you will find "such" used in this way more or less throughout the KJ Bible but probably NOT in the "new" one.
BTW, be sure to capitalise "Him" and "His"...
Note from asker:
Well, of course - and thanks for the hint concerning "such" :)
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