bretèche

English translation: bartizan

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:bretèche
English translation:bartizan
Entered by: Anna Quail

11:31 Mar 10, 2006
French to English translations [PRO]
Linguistics / medieval architecture
French term or phrase: bretèche
Hello everybody,
I can't find the English word for "bretèche" = "construction en encorbellement, garnie de créneaux, de mâchicoulis." And loop-holes as well in a few castles...
Any idea ? Thanks very much
sabroso
Local time: 11:14
bartizan
Explanation:
*

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Note added at 9 mins (2006-03-10 11:41:04 GMT)
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"Bartizan - An overhanging battlemented corner turret, corbelled out; sometimes as grandiose as an overhanging gallery; common in Scotland and France."

http://www.castlesontheweb.com/glossary.html

"BARTIZAN (BARTISAN): Scottish term, projecting corner turret. A small overhanging turret on a towers battlement.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/forts/glossary/glossary.htm

"Bartizan: A projecting circular turret placed on top of a wall, usually at a corner (mainly Scots). "

http://www.britcastles.com/casgloss.htm

"Noun: bartizan baa(r)tizun
A small, overhanging structure for lookout or defence, usually projecting at an angle of a building or near an entrance gateway
Derived forms: bartizans"

http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?ww=3&w=bartizan

"bretèche nom féminin : gatehouse , bartizan " Robert & Collins





Selected response from:

Anna Quail
France
Local time: 11:14
Grading comment
Ok.... with all those definitions, anyone would be confused !!! Nonetheless, I think what I'm looking is "bartizan". It corresponds to the definition Bourth gave : "bartizan - On a fortified wall, a small overhanging structure with lookout holes and loops, often at a corner or near an entrance gateway."
Thanks to all of you !!!

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2bartizan
Anna Quail
3 +2gatehouse with battlements
Carol Gullidge
4 +1brattice
Alexandra Hague
4breteche
Francis MARC
4more angles
Bourth (X)


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
bartizan


Explanation:
*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2006-03-10 11:41:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Bartizan - An overhanging battlemented corner turret, corbelled out; sometimes as grandiose as an overhanging gallery; common in Scotland and France."

http://www.castlesontheweb.com/glossary.html

"BARTIZAN (BARTISAN): Scottish term, projecting corner turret. A small overhanging turret on a towers battlement.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/forts/glossary/glossary.htm

"Bartizan: A projecting circular turret placed on top of a wall, usually at a corner (mainly Scots). "

http://www.britcastles.com/casgloss.htm

"Noun: bartizan baa(r)tizun
A small, overhanging structure for lookout or defence, usually projecting at an angle of a building or near an entrance gateway
Derived forms: bartizans"

http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?ww=3&w=bartizan

"bretèche nom féminin : gatehouse , bartizan " Robert & Collins







Anna Quail
France
Local time: 11:14
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Ok.... with all those definitions, anyone would be confused !!! Nonetheless, I think what I'm looking is "bartizan". It corresponds to the definition Bourth gave : "bartizan - On a fortified wall, a small overhanging structure with lookout holes and loops, often at a corner or near an entrance gateway."
Thanks to all of you !!!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Cf. Architecture & Construction FR/EN/FR, Forbes, Ed. Lavoisier. Archi & batîment, Hasol, Ed. Le Moniteur.
3 mins
  -> Thank you Nikki!

agree  IC --
2 hrs
  -> Thanks icg :-)
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
gatehouse with battlements


Explanation:
alternative to bartizan (also in Collins)

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anna Quail: Yes, if the word bartizan seems too specific for sabroso's context. Depends on whether it is a specialist text or not . ( You see, I don't always disagree with you!)
6 mins
  -> Thanks, Flo! (just spotted you had gatehous as well. have to admit, I'd never heard of bartizan before, and Collins only has it one way (Fr->Eng))

agree  IC --
1 hr
  -> thanks, icg. in fact this was one of frenchtoenglish's responses, which I had overlooked amongst all the others
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
breteche


Explanation:
Termium:
Subject Field(s)
  – Archeology
Subject Field(s)
  – Archéologie
 
breteche Source

bretèche Source

OBS – timber construction intended
to strengthen and to flank a front or
salient

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Note added at 36 mins (2006-03-10 12:07:50 GMT)
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Glossary of Castles and Castle ArchitectureCastle terminology: a lexicon of useful words in English and French. ... Breteche- A pojecting piece of wall, generally over a doorway, ...
www.languedoc-france.info/glossary/castle/ - 22k
Montalto Castle - [ Traduire cette page ]... the embattled walled curtains, the chapel, the two gates (still endowed with breteche) and the great palace, formerly the keep of the ancient castle. ...
www.castellitoscani.com/montalto.htm - 5k - En cache - Pages similaires


Fosdinovo Castle - [ Traduire cette page ]With its 12th century walls still intact, Fosdinovo Castle crowning a hill ... Over the main gate, defended by a breteche, still present is a coat of arms ...
www.castellitoscani.com/fosdinovo.htm - 8k



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Note added at 37 mins (2006-03-10 12:08:36 GMT)
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The Pierle Castle - [ Traduire cette page ]The castle is still today sited in the municipality of this town. ... its walls remains only some brackets in stone that supported the breteche of the main, ...
www.marilenalacasella.com/ ing/Il%20Castello%20di%20Pierle.htm - 5k


Francis MARC
Lithuania
Local time: 12:14
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Anna Quail: Apparently, this is not made of timber, and your websites are not from the UK or US, so are less likely to be English -English
50 mins
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
brattice


Explanation:
http://www.languedoc-france.info/glossary/castle/index.htm

Breteche- A pojecting piece of wall, generally over a doorway, acting as a maciolation or murther hole.. Brattice- Logette à mâchicoulis faisant saillie, utilisée comme ouvrage de défense.

I found this on the net.

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Note added at 9 mins (2006-03-10 11:40:50 GMT)
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have not checked this elsewhere

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Note added at 13 mins (2006-03-10 11:45:11 GMT)
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Also known as a hoarding.

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Note added at 37 mins (2006-03-10 12:08:50 GMT)
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I see what you are saying about French2English.
I found hoarding on another website, but you are probably right.

Alexandra Hague
Local time: 11:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: as far as I know, a hoarding is something else.

Asker: FrenchtoEnglish, what I'm looking for corresponds more to the following definition you gave : "A small, overhanging structure for lookout or defence, usually projecting at an angle of a building or near an entrance gateway". It is not a temporary parapet, it is made out of stone.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Also suggested by my second dico. Confirmed by the Oxford Dico of Architecture.
1 min
  -> thanks Nikki, how are you?

neutral  Anna Quail: Depends on what sabroso is looking for. This is to be found also in one of the links I gave: "BRATTICE: 1) A wooden tower; 2) A temporary breastwork or parapet put up during a siege (Hording) Projection to allow the defense of the base of a building."
11 mins
  -> yes, I see
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
more angles


Explanation:
Just to further confuse the issue!

My Dictionnaire d'Architecture defines:

bretèche - Petite construction édifiée en surplomb d'un mur, le plus souvent au-dessus d'une porte, comportant comme le mâchicoulis un sol percé pour assurer le flanquement vertical.

The illustration shows a STONE-built structure projecting only very slightly from the defensive wall (a straight bit of wall), and some height above it, with arrow slits and mâchicoulis.


The McGHill Dict. of Architecture and Construction gives brattice, bretesse, and bretèche as synonyms for this definition:
In medieval fortifications, a tower or bay of TIMBER construction.

The illustration shows a structure built as part of the roof, like a dormer window, but overhanging the walls (straight wall).

The same dict. gives:

bartizan - On a fortified wall, a small overhanging structure with lookout holes and loops, often at a corner or near an entrance gateway.

The illustration shows a round stone turret at a corner (built out from the stone walls, not descending to ground level), extending some height above the wall.

The bartizan is very similar to an "échauguette", the illustration of which in the French dict. above does not extend above the top of the wall. On the other hand, the McGHill dict. says that an "échauguette" (in English) is the same as a bartizan.

Dicobat gives:
bretèche, bretesse - Construction en BOIS à pans coupés, à l'origine à usage de fortification, située sous les combles des édifices [cf brattice above] ...
As the English, Dicobat gives "bartizan" [but the English of Dicobat is often only approximate]

Lexis gives "bretèche" as "logette rectangulaire ou à pans coupés, en encorbellement au milieu d'une façade, et couverte en appentis [without specifying whether wood or stone]

For brattice, SOED speaks of "A temporary breastwork, parapet, or gallery of wood, for use during a siege.

It seems to be the most consistent match is "brattice".


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Note added at 15 hrs (2006-03-11 02:39:45 GMT)
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Read: "It seems to ME the most consistent match is "brattice"."


Bourth (X)
Local time: 11:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44
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