Sep 18, 2008 15:55
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Hungarian term
lakástalan
Hungarian to English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
definíciót lásd http://www.periferiaegyesulet.hu/kiadvanyok/hajlektalanok_a_... 2. oldal
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | of no fixed abode |
Elevenít (X)
|
| 4 +1 | homeless |
Katarina Peters
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| 4 +1 | flatless |
hollowman (X)
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| 3 | houseless (without a house) |
Lingua.Franca
|
Proposed translations
3 hrs
Selected
of no fixed abode
This is bordering on a euphemism for homelessness, but is a more accurate description of the situation that many of the homeless find themselves in
Example sentence:
Of no fixed abode: homeless house officers
Admissions of people of 'no fixed abode' in Birmingham were compared for the years 1961-1964 and 1995-1996. Both the number of admissions and duration of in-patient episodes had decreased and many patients continued to receive no aftercare.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks"
1 hr
Lingua.Franca
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Spain
BSc, MA, DipTrans
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, Hungarian to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
houseless (without a house)
Én így fordítanám:
Without a roof, effectively homeless, houseless, homeless
Mivel a fenti felsorolást követi részletes kategorizálás, ill. magyarázat, nem fogja az olvasót zavarni az, hogy nem 100%-os a "without a roof" ("Without a roof over his/her head"). Ezt majd beírhatod később. A "roofless" az már egy kicsit bátrabb lenne, de elfogadható... ha a magyarázatnál kiegészíted.
Katarina válasza szerintem azért rossz, mert ha a lakástalan "homeless", akkor a hajléktalan nem lehet "homeless". Kategorizálni kell őket valahogy.
Without a roof, effectively homeless, houseless, homeless
Mivel a fenti felsorolást követi részletes kategorizálás, ill. magyarázat, nem fogja az olvasót zavarni az, hogy nem 100%-os a "without a roof" ("Without a roof over his/her head"). Ezt majd beírhatod később. A "roofless" az már egy kicsit bátrabb lenne, de elfogadható... ha a magyarázatnál kiegészíted.
Katarina válasza szerintem azért rossz, mert ha a lakástalan "homeless", akkor a hajléktalan nem lehet "homeless". Kategorizálni kell őket valahogy.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Katarina Peters
: akkor már inkább "without shelter" - houseless nem hangzik jó angolul//"without a place to live" - de ez már nagyon erőltetett...
13 mins
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Az is jó, gondoltam rá. A "without a roof"-ot is helyettesíthetné, és akkor a négyből három egyforma. // az eredeti is erőltetett egy kicsit.
|
+1
3 mins
Katarina Peters
Canada
Canada
Native in Hungarian
&
English
Works in field
Canada
Accuracy and A1 presentation
Native in: Hungarian 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, Hungarian to English, and 13 more.
homeless
:)
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Note added at 57 mins (2008-09-18 16:52:52 GMT)
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Homelessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaHomelessness is the condition and social category of people who lack housing, because they cannot afford, or are otherwise unable to maintain, regular, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness - 180k - Cached - Similar pages
Citizen Hobo: How a Century of Homelessness Shaped America - Google Books Resultby Todd DePastino - 2003 - History - 325 pages
In this eye-opening work of American history, Todd DePastino tells the epic story of hobohemia's rise and fall, and crafts a stunning new interpretation of...
books.google.ca/books?isbn=0226143783...
The Hidden HomelessThe Hidden Homeless, a project by Raising the Roof.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 17:52:14 GMT)
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"without shelter" is another possibility.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2008-09-18 16:52:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Homelessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaHomelessness is the condition and social category of people who lack housing, because they cannot afford, or are otherwise unable to maintain, regular, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness - 180k - Cached - Similar pages
Citizen Hobo: How a Century of Homelessness Shaped America - Google Books Resultby Todd DePastino - 2003 - History - 325 pages
In this eye-opening work of American history, Todd DePastino tells the epic story of hobohemia's rise and fall, and crafts a stunning new interpretation of...
books.google.ca/books?isbn=0226143783...
The Hidden HomelessThe Hidden Homeless, a project by Raising the Roof.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 17:52:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"without shelter" is another possibility.
Note from asker:
| A :) rövidítés tehát azt jelenti, hogy az angol nyelv bizonyíthatóan nem alkalmazza azt a különbségtételt, amit az általam idézett forrás. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Leslie Gabor (X)
2 mins
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Köszönöm, Leslie
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| agree |
Palaca
20 mins
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Köszönöm, Palaca
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| neutral |
Katalin Horváth McClure
: Szerintem nem lehet ilyen egyszerűen elintézni, a kérdező anyagában a definíció részletesebb kategorizálásra utal. Fentebb a vitafórumon érdemes megbeszélni.
38 mins
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mégpedig? A kérdezo pontosan megadja a szövegkörnyezetet: lsd. 2. oldal: "fedél nélkuli, effektiv hajléktalan"
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| neutral |
Lingua.Franca
: Katalinnak van igaza, a lakástalan nem homeless.
1 hr
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Az adott idézet szerint, "fedél nélküli v. lakástalan hajléktalannak felel meg, amire tudtommal nincs más kifejezés angolul mint homeless
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| disagree |
hollowman (X)
: Katalinnak és Tamásnak igaza van, a lakástalan nem homeless. // http://tinyurl.com/3hle4u és lásd: 81/160 lapot http://tinyurl.com/3pyq8q és http://tinyurl.com/4rqmnj a mellékelt linkek szerint NEM CSAK a MAGYAR alkalmazása ismert.
11 days
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a "flatless" kifejezés magyar találmány amit külföldön nem használnak. Az idézeted magyar eredetu.//Az utolso link nyilván kimutatja amit mondok. Csak egyszer szerepel a "flatless" és az is a rossz válasz.
|
+1
7 hrs
flatless
roofless -> fedél nélküli
effective homeless -> effektív hajléktalan
flatless -> lakástalan
homeless -> otthontalan
Ld.:
1 "roofless" are those, who spend their nights in a public place, under the open sky, or in an obscure place not suitable for habitation
2. "effective homeless" those, who are "roofless", or who do not have a stable, permanent dwelling, and have to "work for it" day by day to have a place to spend the night - it can be either a flat, providing accommodation as a favour, or some other place, not a flat, but a suitable dwelling (one of the homeless care institutions - shelter, short - term residential institutions for homeless etc)
3. "flatless" those, who are "effective homeless", or who have a stable dwelling which is not a flat but is suitable to live in (hostels for factory workers, jails, inhabitations, etc.), or who have a permanent place to spend their nights in, but they are not in the disposal of the unintermitted use of the flat (they are not owners or tenants but lodgers, sub-tenants, night-lodgers, grown up family members, having been accommodation as a favour or just having been given shelter to)
4. "homeless" (or "being periled by becoming homeless") collectively those, who are "flatless", or who live in a flat, but it is not suitable for creating a real home and raising up a family (either because the flat is overcrowded or because of the physical conditions of the flat/building)2
http://www.cuhp.org/admin/EditDocStore/ACF5E0C.pdf
---
Ld.:
Keywords: HUNGARY / EUROPE / DEFINITION / QUANTITATIVE SURVEY
Abstract: The paper introduce the structure and the aim of the survey that was asked on February 3rd in 1999 in the homeless night-shelters and hostels (that is repeated yearly since then) and it summarizes the results of another survey that was conducted in 1997-1999 at mobile tea-service stations. The paper also discuss the different categories of homeless definition (roofless, effective homeless, flatless, homeless) and the causes of homelessness. It states that during the nineties the structural reasons of homelessness was emphasized while the individual life events were neglected because a simplified discourse was needed to establish the homeless institution system. The other important result of the paper is that it examines what group of homeless people use the shelters and hostels. It states that these institutions are mainly used by the flatless rather than the roofless. The paper sees this phenomenon as a main dysfunction both of the homeless providing and the housing system.
http://www.cuhp.org/admin/EditDocStore/biblio-final-sfUK.doc
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Note added at 11 nap (2008-09-30 15:38:36 GMT)
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"flatless"
lásd:
Homelessness in Europe
International Conference
Hajszolt
Balatonföldvár - Hungary 28-30. October 1999
http://bmszki.hu/file/english/english4/92tizevEN.doc
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Note added at 11 nap (2008-09-30 15:47:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"flatless"
Topic: Multi-cultural society
People without a roof over their head are called:
? homeless
? headless
? roofless
? flatless
lásd: 81/160 lapot
http://www.gms-bc.de/fileadmin/upload/Quiz/Englisch/englisch...
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Note added at 12 nap (2008-09-30 16:18:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Accommodation hasn't materialized yet either, but there have been some near-hits. Picking up a copy of the Galway Advertiser on Wednesday afternoon, it was amazing how, within just a couple of hours, a number of properties were already taken. However, there are plenty left, and I've arranged to see a few of them, so hopefully I will also have a home soon. Actually, read 'soon' as 'by tomorrow night': Barnacles is full-up for Easter weekend, so I have to check out tomorrow morning.
April 22nd
For the past week and a half, I have spent my nights on top of a beautiful French woman.
Okay, so she was only sleeping in the bunk underneath mine, but still, a guy can dream, can't he?
Well, I'll have to do my dreaming elsewhere; it's Saturday morning, so out the door I go and, for the moment, I'm still flatless. One of my friends has said that I can crash at hers if I don't find anything though, so at least I have a place to stay in the meantime (sadly, it's not the French girl - she's going away for a few, and moves into a flat of her own when she comes back on Tuesday). The hostel staff also let me leave my pack in the luggage room for the day, so there's one more concern literally off my back.
http://www.bootsnall.com/articles/00-04/ireland-on-a-working...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 nap (2008-09-30 16:27:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One thing that needs to stay in london, that I can't quite figure out how to part with, is my grey zip hooded sweatshirt.
Maybe I'll give it to the homeless guy who begs by the post office. Hmmm.
Anywho, the long and short of it is that I have moved out of my apartment. I am for the next few hours, flatless.
http://leahj.blog-city.com/how_did_i_get_all_this_stuff_over...
effective homeless -> effektív hajléktalan
flatless -> lakástalan
homeless -> otthontalan
Ld.:
1 "roofless" are those, who spend their nights in a public place, under the open sky, or in an obscure place not suitable for habitation
2. "effective homeless" those, who are "roofless", or who do not have a stable, permanent dwelling, and have to "work for it" day by day to have a place to spend the night - it can be either a flat, providing accommodation as a favour, or some other place, not a flat, but a suitable dwelling (one of the homeless care institutions - shelter, short - term residential institutions for homeless etc)
3. "flatless" those, who are "effective homeless", or who have a stable dwelling which is not a flat but is suitable to live in (hostels for factory workers, jails, inhabitations, etc.), or who have a permanent place to spend their nights in, but they are not in the disposal of the unintermitted use of the flat (they are not owners or tenants but lodgers, sub-tenants, night-lodgers, grown up family members, having been accommodation as a favour or just having been given shelter to)
4. "homeless" (or "being periled by becoming homeless") collectively those, who are "flatless", or who live in a flat, but it is not suitable for creating a real home and raising up a family (either because the flat is overcrowded or because of the physical conditions of the flat/building)2
http://www.cuhp.org/admin/EditDocStore/ACF5E0C.pdf
---
Ld.:
Keywords: HUNGARY / EUROPE / DEFINITION / QUANTITATIVE SURVEY
Abstract: The paper introduce the structure and the aim of the survey that was asked on February 3rd in 1999 in the homeless night-shelters and hostels (that is repeated yearly since then) and it summarizes the results of another survey that was conducted in 1997-1999 at mobile tea-service stations. The paper also discuss the different categories of homeless definition (roofless, effective homeless, flatless, homeless) and the causes of homelessness. It states that during the nineties the structural reasons of homelessness was emphasized while the individual life events were neglected because a simplified discourse was needed to establish the homeless institution system. The other important result of the paper is that it examines what group of homeless people use the shelters and hostels. It states that these institutions are mainly used by the flatless rather than the roofless. The paper sees this phenomenon as a main dysfunction both of the homeless providing and the housing system.
http://www.cuhp.org/admin/EditDocStore/biblio-final-sfUK.doc
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 nap (2008-09-30 15:38:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"flatless"
lásd:
Homelessness in Europe
International Conference
Hajszolt
Balatonföldvár - Hungary 28-30. October 1999
http://bmszki.hu/file/english/english4/92tizevEN.doc
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 nap (2008-09-30 15:47:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"flatless"
Topic: Multi-cultural society
People without a roof over their head are called:
? homeless
? headless
? roofless
? flatless
lásd: 81/160 lapot
http://www.gms-bc.de/fileadmin/upload/Quiz/Englisch/englisch...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 nap (2008-09-30 16:18:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Accommodation hasn't materialized yet either, but there have been some near-hits. Picking up a copy of the Galway Advertiser on Wednesday afternoon, it was amazing how, within just a couple of hours, a number of properties were already taken. However, there are plenty left, and I've arranged to see a few of them, so hopefully I will also have a home soon. Actually, read 'soon' as 'by tomorrow night': Barnacles is full-up for Easter weekend, so I have to check out tomorrow morning.
April 22nd
For the past week and a half, I have spent my nights on top of a beautiful French woman.
Okay, so she was only sleeping in the bunk underneath mine, but still, a guy can dream, can't he?
Well, I'll have to do my dreaming elsewhere; it's Saturday morning, so out the door I go and, for the moment, I'm still flatless. One of my friends has said that I can crash at hers if I don't find anything though, so at least I have a place to stay in the meantime (sadly, it's not the French girl - she's going away for a few, and moves into a flat of her own when she comes back on Tuesday). The hostel staff also let me leave my pack in the luggage room for the day, so there's one more concern literally off my back.
http://www.bootsnall.com/articles/00-04/ireland-on-a-working...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 nap (2008-09-30 16:27:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One thing that needs to stay in london, that I can't quite figure out how to part with, is my grey zip hooded sweatshirt.
Maybe I'll give it to the homeless guy who begs by the post office. Hmmm.
Anywho, the long and short of it is that I have moved out of my apartment. I am for the next few hours, flatless.
http://leahj.blog-city.com/how_did_i_get_all_this_stuff_over...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Elevenít (X)
: No native Brit/American would distinguish between flatless and homeless (the former not being used) as they largely don't live in flats and still refer to these as 'home' when they do. Also, 'effectiveLY homeless' (the source is not mother tongue).
7 hrs
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Konkrétan, szakemberek által alkalmazott kifejezés. Tehát a szakmabeliek értik. A kifejezés megkülönböztetése az érintettek érdekében nyomatékosan indokolt. A többit bízzuk a kérdezőre. Szerintem.
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| neutral |
Andras Kovacs
: Megjegyzendő: ha ez jó, akkor is csak a britek értenék meg, mert a "flat" brit kifejezés
8 hrs
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Mivel - a referenciáim szerint - definícióról van szó (lásd fentebb), én az érintett terület szakembereire bíznám a döntést, hogy használnak-e egy már többször alkalmazott és egyébként jól definiált kifejezést.
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| agree |
kyanzes
: Viszonylag kimerítő keresés után arra jutottam, hogy a különféle "fokozatok" elkülönítése egyéni módon történik intézményről-intézményre, tanulmányról-tanulmányra. A fenti megoldás példa egy ilyen arbitrális mércére.
22 hrs
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Köszönöm!
|
Reference comments
1 hr
Lingua.Franca
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Spain
BSc, MA, DipTrans
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, Hungarian to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
1 hr
Reference:
"Homelessness - Grades of homelessness"
Homelessness is a situation in which a person does not have a long term place of ongoing residence. This is distinguished from nomadic cultures in which that condition is considered normal. The problem of homelessness is most visible in the poor sections of large cities and suburbs, though the homeless frequently co-exist less visibly within communities where most residents are not poor.
Homelessness - Grades of homelessness
Obviously this list could have many gradients. This is just meant to highlight the downward mobility of homelessness.
Homelessness - Most secure
Those who always have shelter due to kindness of friends, and receive a government check or limited wages.
Homelessness - Less secure
Those who exist only on the kindness of friends with both food and shelter, no government help.
Homelessness - Less secure still
Those who live in unpleasant long term "group shelters" & have food supplied.
Homelessness - At risk of exposure
The "Motor Homeless", sleep in an unheated junk car that is drivable, a few die from exposure.
Homelessness - Ongoing risk of illness from exposure
Those who spend at least 30 nights a year in open air winter,or rainy conditions.
Homelessness - Probable life risk
Those who have no family, no affluent friends, have no car, no food except donated charity goods.
Homelessness in Canada, Homelessness in the United States, Street children, Homeless World Cup
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 17:42:32 GMT)
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Egy másik:
Under this, the definition proposed by two Melbourne researchers, Chris Chamberlain & David McKenzie1, was used, which distinguishes different levels of homelessness:
Primary homeless: “Sleeping rough” and lacking conventional accommodation.
Secondary homeless: People who move frequently from one form of temporary shelter to another and including people in SAAP accommodation.
Tertiary homeless People who live in boarding houses on a medium to long-term basis.
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:YOFQSLKkLKoJ:www.famili...
Homelessness is a situation in which a person does not have a long term place of ongoing residence. This is distinguished from nomadic cultures in which that condition is considered normal. The problem of homelessness is most visible in the poor sections of large cities and suburbs, though the homeless frequently co-exist less visibly within communities where most residents are not poor.
Homelessness - Grades of homelessness
Obviously this list could have many gradients. This is just meant to highlight the downward mobility of homelessness.
Homelessness - Most secure
Those who always have shelter due to kindness of friends, and receive a government check or limited wages.
Homelessness - Less secure
Those who exist only on the kindness of friends with both food and shelter, no government help.
Homelessness - Less secure still
Those who live in unpleasant long term "group shelters" & have food supplied.
Homelessness - At risk of exposure
The "Motor Homeless", sleep in an unheated junk car that is drivable, a few die from exposure.
Homelessness - Ongoing risk of illness from exposure
Those who spend at least 30 nights a year in open air winter,or rainy conditions.
Homelessness - Probable life risk
Those who have no family, no affluent friends, have no car, no food except donated charity goods.
Homelessness in Canada, Homelessness in the United States, Street children, Homeless World Cup
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 17:42:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Egy másik:
Under this, the definition proposed by two Melbourne researchers, Chris Chamberlain & David McKenzie1, was used, which distinguishes different levels of homelessness:
Primary homeless: “Sleeping rough” and lacking conventional accommodation.
Secondary homeless: People who move frequently from one form of temporary shelter to another and including people in SAAP accommodation.
Tertiary homeless People who live in boarding houses on a medium to long-term basis.
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:YOFQSLKkLKoJ:www.famili...
15 hrs
Andras Kovacs
Native in Hungarian
A szó jelentése a fontos, nem maga a szó
Native in: Hungarian
Works in: Hungarian to German, German to Hungarian, Hungarian to English, and 6 more.
Reference:
A Menhely Alapítvány egyszer kiadott egy tanulmányt angolul is, ami segíthet...
Discussion
People without a roof over their head are called:
? roofless
? headless
Richtig :-) homeless
? flatless
http://www.refomix.hu/cikkek/2006statisticalpaper-magyarul.d...
Az 52. oldalon "Az otthontalanság egyes formái és lehetséges mérésük (ETHOS alapján)" angol elnevezések is. Természetesen ez nem a fordítandó szöveg, csak referenciaként közlöm, most találtam.
Hogy aztán mennyire megbízható, az kérdés. Mindenesetre a roofless stimmel az EU-s anyaggal. Itt a lakástalan az "people without flat"...
http://www.feantsa.org/files/indicators_wg/policystatemens/h...
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3110129.NSF/85255e31005a19...
Van pl. ez.:
Unless otherwise stated, the assessment category of 'homeless' includes both homeless and potentially homeless, as well as unintentional and intentional homeless. Although the focus of the current legislative changes is on providing secure accommodation to those assessed as unintentionally homeless, the proportion of applications assessed as intentionally homeless and in priority need is relatively small. This category has therefore been combined with that of unintentionally homeless and in priority need for the more complex analyses.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/03/27113728/0
Ez persze más felosztás, de a problémát kellőképpen megvilágítja.
Ezzel szemben a squatter szerintem a lakásfoglalóhoz áll közelebb, aki elhagyott ingatlanban a tulajdonos beleegyezése nélkül (tehát semmi esetre sem megtűrtként) tartózkodik.