https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/poetry-literature/3896512-die-toten-der-kriege-mahnen-die-lebenden-zum-frieden.html?phpv_redirected=1&phpv_redirected=2
Jun 16, 2010 15:27
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Die Toten der Kriege mahnen die Lebenden zum Frieden.

German to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
I have translated a short text about military cemeteries which went well and this was the last line. I went with: 'Those who gave their lives in the wars must serve as a reminder to the living of peace' but am unhappy with the impact and word order of the last part. Can anyone come up with a better idea?

Discussion

Jim Tucker (X) Jun 16, 2010:
@Tony Indeed you can. I give you carte blanche. (But seriously, yes, either for or against; "admonish" can mean either "chasten" or "encourage", or in this case perhaps both. It's even in the original etymology ad + moneo "advise towards" -- but of course that's just trivia, not an argument)

Here I picked "toward" over "to" as an indication of the difficulty of the enterprise, and its need for constant effort.
TonyTK Jun 16, 2010:
I'm also one of the ... ... great unwashed.

re. Jim's answer: can you admonish someone "toward" something?

Melanie Meyer Jun 16, 2010:
@ Anne-Mette I like the second part of your suggestion the best, but would possibly put "Those who have died in wars,..." as the first part of your sentence.
Kim Metzger Jun 16, 2010:
Non-members can't even comment on the answers given, and there are a lot of us.
Lancashireman Jun 16, 2010:
As a newcomer... ...you may have inadvisedly clicked on the 'members only' option. This is not going to improve the quality of the answers you receive. See this thread: http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/157270-about_the_only_prozco...
Anne-Mette Jun 16, 2010:
Just like to have a go ... "Those killed by the wars urge the living to preserve the peace."

I personally don't like the pathos of the word "gave" since that suggests that those killed had a choice ...

Proposed translations

55 mins
Selected

May those who died in all wars remind the living of our common quest for peace

may work
Note from asker:
I finally used a combination based on your suggestion: May those who died in war serve as a constant reminder to the living of the quest for peace, lest we forget
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all for their great suggestions"
12 mins

Those who died in war remind the living what it means to live in peace.

Nobody ever said it better than Abraham Lincoln in the Gettysburg Address:

"But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate—we cannot consecrate—we cannot hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom— and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
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+1
36 mins

The war dead admonish the living toward peace.

or "Those who *have* died in wars..."
Peer comment(s):

agree Rolf Keiser : I like this one!
18 mins
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42 mins

Those who died in wars - a stark reminder to the living to promote peace

a bit different.....
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+3
58 mins

Lest we forget

This is the phrase that automatically comes to mind, it's so well-known that it can take the place of the entire lengthy translation.
Comes from a poem by Rudyard Kipling entitled Recessional.
Used in Remembrance Day ceremonies as a caution against forgetting those who died in war.

See also
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lest_we_forget
Note from asker:
I finally chose a combination May those who died in war serve as a constant reminder to the living of the quest for peace, lest we forget. Lest we forget is my personal favourite but was not really a translation of the German
Peer comment(s):

agree Cetacea : That's much better than the original, actually.
2 hrs
Thank you! Well, not everybody can be Kipling ... ;-)
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : this would definitely be the Canadian equivalent
2 hrs
Thanks Johann, you're right!
neutral Edwin Miles : It's nice, but from a translation pov, I'd like to know it would fit with the remaining context,whatever that is. Btw, in Australia, we'd think of "They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old..."
2 hrs
agree Kerstin Green : for a UK audience I think this is great!
1 day 1 hr
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3 hrs

The dead from wars past shall remind the living to keep the peace

Those who gave their lives in the wars must serve as a reminder to the living of peace' but am unhappy with the impact and word order of the last part.

sugg:
The dead from wars past shall remind the living to keep the peace
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+2
3 hrs

The dead of war counsel the living to peace.

This works nicely for my ear. I know "counsel" is not quite the same as mahnen, perhaps more benign, but I think the drama of "the dead of war" balances this.
Peer comment(s):

agree Jim Tucker (X)
1 hr
Thanks, Jim.
agree philgoddard : Perfect! It needs to be short and punchy like the German. and the rhythm is very similar (mahnen = counsel)
2 hrs
Thanks Phil, appreciate the support.
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1 day 20 hrs

remind/warn

"Those who died in war remind those who live in peace."

That's about as short and as close to the German as I can get it without getting tangled up in articles. One could substitute 'warn' for 'remind' but that would technically get a bit away from the original German. As in the original, I see no need to include any sort of 'remind of what' as it's obvious.
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1 day 20 hrs

Those who died in war remind those who live in peace.

(I was under the impression that the sentence should go here and the target term should go above. However...please pardon the double submission!)
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