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Jun 28, 2019 00:24
4 yrs ago
French term

dénotent

Non-PRO French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
This is from a short story by a French author about a girl raised in a privileged family who goes astray.

"Les parents s’enorgueillissaient d’avoir su évi-ter à leurs enfants tous les problèmes de la jeunesse dorée issue de la bourgeoisie. Dans le village d’Amélie, pas de drogues ni d’alcool, pas de comportements délinquants. La pire bêtise d’Amélie avait été de manquer une leçon de violon pour aller embrasser son voisin dans les bois, lorsqu’elle avait quatorze ans, c’est dire!

Mais un matin, Amélie Duclaux passa de l’autre côté, du côté de ceux qui dénotent, qui déraillent, qui dérangent."

Normally, I would think dénoter would be translated with the cognate "to denote, indicate," but that just doesn't make sense in this context. I read somewhere else if might be "to be off key"/"to miss a note" in which case this would be more figurative.

Any thoughts?
Proposed translations (English)
4 those who go off-key / don't fit in
3 (people who) stand out
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Yolanda Broad, Daryo

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Discussion

Ph_B (X) Jun 28, 2019:
katsy, Don't! Je boirai la coupe... "Out of tune" is good as it reflects détonner (i.e. ne pas être en harmonie avec).
katsy Jun 28, 2019:
@ Eliza I would (possibly at a stretch!)be prepared to go along with you. However, the use of the word "dénoter" is so frequent, used absolutely, to mean 'to be out of place' that I stand by my first remarks! In any case, a musical term would be quite possible - "those who clash with/are out of tune with /are discordant....."
Stephanie Benoist Jun 28, 2019:
In that case,"off-key" is perfect because it maintains the musical nuance.
katsy Jun 28, 2019:
@Ph_B I am happy to amend my entry Ph_B! (and edit this one later if necessary!) This particular usage is so frequent. I too have looked in vain for possible meanings of dénoter other than 'signaler, indiquer'. I know I tend to be quite prescriptive (having been a teacher doesn't help!) so I did check beforehand... :-)
Eliza Hall Jun 28, 2019:
Maybe a creative use of the word? This COULD possibly be a creative use of dénoter in the sense of "se dénoter par [x qualité]." In other words, "stand out": ...those who stand out, who go off the rails, who disturb.

It's a literary text, after all. Some poetic license is allowed.
Ph_B (X) Jun 28, 2019:
Mmh... I'm starting to wonder now... Katsy's comment made me look at my earlier comment and I think I meant: Son attitude détonne. I can't find any ex. where dénoter is used without a direct object. It wouldn't be right to delete my post since it's been referred to, but I wish I could! Anyway, I agree that the writer probably meant détonner.
katsy Jun 28, 2019:
dénoter (to denote) vs détonner (be out of place) A frequent misuse... I would agree with the sense suggested by Ph_B in DB and the answer suggested by Daryo. However, even if many people are heard to say "dénoter" (which has the same meaning as to denote in English) instead of détonner, it is a misuse. Author here definitely means 'to stand out'/'to be out of place'.CNRTL and Academy will confirm, but I have chosen a link which is is less indicative of "stick-in-the-mud' expression. BTW it is the verb "détonner" which references music
http://parler-francais.eklablog.com/denoter-detonner-a310979...
philgoddard Jun 28, 2019:
Yes I wonder if it's possible to reproduce the wordplay. Three near synonyms beginning with "dis"?
Ph_B (X) Jun 28, 2019:
"dénoter" Just to confirm that when used intransitively, it describes something that's noticeable because it doesn't conform to rules/accepted behaviour, etc. Son attitude dénote. > "People notice her because her behaviour is different."[SEE BELOW]

Proposed translations

13 hrs
French term (edited): ceux qui dénotent
Selected

those who go off-key / don't fit in

or if it was a politician: those who stray off-message ...
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I agree it’s a negative remark. Stand out from ormiston is easier to fit into the translation, but I still need to make sure the negative comes out like not fitting in. Thanks for the help."
1 day 10 hrs

(people who) stand out

This has been mentioned in the discussion and merits a place. The verb is milder, not necessarily negative (the following verbs cover reactions beyond merely the raising of an eyebrow).

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://forum.wordreference.com...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : isn't "people who stand out" meant to have a positive connotation? As opposed to "ceux qui dénotent" - hardly intended as a praise in this ST...
1 day 13 hrs
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