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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

not quite complimented by

English answer:

not altogether flattered by / not at all flattered by

Added to glossary by Charles Davis
Jan 3, 2014 01:19
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

not quite complimented by

English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
"As he stepped up to the counter, the dusky brunette behind it – not without her charms but a bit on the plump side and not quite complimented by her thick round glasses – rose to greet him."

I would like to hear some native opinions - preferably, from fellow Americans - on how natural the "not quite complimented by" sounds here. I found a few usage hits for the construct, and they seem to be from native sources, but somehow their scarce number and the general quality of writing there leave me unconvinced.

The only other alternative I can think of at the moment is "not quite graced by", but I like that even less.

Any opinions welcome. Many thanks in advance.
Responses
4 +4 not altogether flattered by / not at all flattered by
4 +1 unbecoming
Change log

Jan 3, 2014 08:26: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "Other" to "Poetry & Literature"

Jan 4, 2014 15:18: Charles Davis Created KOG entry

Discussion

Yvonne Gallagher Jan 4, 2014:
@ Charles

Well, strange you haven't been able to find any dictionary evidence for this so perhaps I heard it. However, it did/does not look that strange to me. Perhaps it's Hiberno-English? I'll have to ask around as to others' opinions...I think the reason I didn't hear words like "unbecoming" on the merchant ships was due to the lower level of English in use (officers UK and Canadian, crew mostly Newfoundlanders/French Canadians with a few immigrants, Guyana, Poland etc)
Charles Davis Jan 4, 2014:
Hi, Gallagy Well, if you say so, but I can't find any dictionary support for this use of "compliment" and I don't think I've ever heard or seen it before.

Yes, I think "conduct unbecoming" is a long-established set phrase, and not exclusively (perhaps not even originally) military or naval. As for your ships, maybe you didn't mix with the officers and gentlemen — or perhaps they behaved themselves, so it didn't arise :) To me it is an expression redolent of old-fashioned values and decorum (as is the idea of "gentlemanly conduct" itself).
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 4, 2014:
@ Charles
Yes, I've heard and, I think, seen the expression before as in "her appearance was not quite/entirely/really/altogether complimented by her...whatever". As for "unbecoming" this was used quite frequently when I was in school by teachers: "behaviour unbecoming of young ladies" so nothing to do with ships. I've heard the expression elsewhere as well yet, though I worked on (merchant) ships I never heard the expression there. But "unbecoming of an officer and gentleman" I would have thought was widely known as set expression?
Rachel Douglas Jan 3, 2014:
@ Charles Ah hah! That must be where it came from. My Dad was a midshipman and an ensign, before he became a professor. Hence charging his kids with "unbecoming behavior" flowed naturally.
Charles Davis Jan 3, 2014:
@ Gallagy So you'd say that someone can be "complimented" by her glasses? It still sounds strange to me.

"Your behavior is unbecoming" has reminded me of this:

"Article 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman:
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."
United States Uniform Code of Military Justice
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 3, 2014:
thoughts

coming to this late but just a few comments.
"Not quite complimented by..." I have seen and heard as an expression and I would take it to mean here "not really complimented by...". I agree with Charles about plural "charms" but I would split the whole thing into two sentences as it is very awkward as it stands and the dashes don't really work imho. So "as he...rose to greet him" sentence 1 and then "She was not without her charms but however, she was a bit...and the thick glasses she wore were not exactly/were far from/were not altogether (as Charles has suggested) complimentary/flattering/becoming. I also agree with Rachel about "unbecoming"
The Misha (asker) Jan 3, 2014:
Thank you both, Rachel and Charles All of this is very helpful. As to English professors, I have always had a soft spot for those:)
Rachel Douglas Jan 3, 2014:
Continuing... 1) On the "charms" - yes, you're right that "her charms" can be used. I was being too elliptical. To spell it out, for the guy to be aware of a whole array of charms, some of them perhaps not immediately obvious (and certainly not specified here), offsetting the homeliness you focus on, it seems to me that he would have to know her better. That's why, specifically as an element of a first impression, what popped into my mind was this goofy idea about a charm bracelet.

2) Not sure why you think "unbecoming" is unfancy. In our household, something like "your behavior is unbecoming" or "less than becoming" could be a "high style" way of saying, "Cut it out, you're making an ass of yourself!" You see, the reprimanding parties were both professors of English language and literature...
Charles Davis Jan 3, 2014:
Charms and charm Charms, plural, means pleasant or attractive features or qualities, and in practice often refers to physical attractiveness. Charm, singular, tends to refer to an attractive or winning manner: a capacity to be charming, which physically unattractive people may possess. For this reason, the plural seems more appropriate in this description, at least to me. "Not without her charms" doesn't strike me as an unusual or unidiomatic expression.
The Misha (asker) Jan 3, 2014:
Thanks, Rachel Thanks for pointing out the obvious - that the second "not" isn't good (which kind of renders the original issue moot altogether), and that apparently the guy wouldn't be able to see any of it at all if the lady was sitting behind the counter. Well, duh, I am almost embarrassed. A dusky brunette, the way I see it, is first of all somewhat dark-skinned (the lady being described is of Indian descent - Indian as in India, not American Indian) and a tad too unsmiling and gloomy. "Not without her charms" actually has over 2 mil hits on google, and most of those seem to be from perfectly regular native sources. Then again, you are the native here, and I am not. I asked for an opinion, and that's what you are giving me in good faith, so I am by no means complaining. Also, maybe I am splitting hairs here, but I don't read "not without her charms" and "not without charm" as the same even though I can't quite pinpoint the difference. Finally, I don't think "becoming" or anything around it works, and not because it's dated or anything. It's very much like saying the milk was white and tasted like milk. I am looking for something a little fancier here. In any case, many thanks. I'll rework.
Rachel Douglas Jan 3, 2014:
@ Phoenix III Yes, and I want to vote for your entry, but am having a technical problem with that at the moment. By the way, I don't think "unbecoming" is old-fashioned. Search "unbecoming glasses" in Google books and one can see lots of examples from 21st-century pulp fiction, and others.
Phoenix III Jan 3, 2014:
@ Rachel That's why I suggested turning the sentence around and use unbecoming. The original sentence just doesn't flow
Rachel Douglas Jan 3, 2014:
Various I think you should write it in some way that avoids having a second "not" phrase after you've already written "not without charm". Otherwise: 1) I've always wondered what a "dusky" brunette was - whether it meant hair that was only slightly dark, or if it referred to skin color. At any rate, in my mind it connotes "sultry" or something like that, and so I'm not sure it fits this person. 2) "not without her charms" - sounds foreign, as if it's saying she remembered to put the charms on her bracelet. Maybe "not without charm"? What was the charm, anyway? Maybe say it - "with a pleasant smile," or whatever. 3) "not quite complimented by" - I would change it around "... and wearing thick, round glasses that did little for her face" or "thick, round, unbecoming glasses" 4) "rose to greet him" - If she was "behind the counter," I picture her standing up already, because if she had been behind the counter and sitting down, like on a chair off in a corner, he probably wouldn't even have seen her, or at least wouldn't have noticed all these features like plumpness.
Charles Davis Jan 3, 2014:
@ Jack That thought struck me too, but as I say in my answer, I don't think "complement" would fit here either. To complement means to go well with, suggesting to enhance the effect of. I don't think you can say that someone is complemented by her glasses or that her glasses complement her. Her glasses could complement her appearance, or some aspect of it (her hair, or whatever), but they can't complement her. You would have to say "her appearance was not complemented by her thick round glasses", for example. But even that would not really be natural, I think, because it implies that these thick round glasses do not suit her appearance, though they might suit someone with a different appearance, but (as I read it) these thick round glasses are inherently unattractive and don't complement anyone's appearance. (Actually, you might even say, to put it bluntly, that the appearance of an ugly person is complemented by ugly glasses, in the sense that they are in keeping with it and accentuate it.)
Jack Doughty Jan 3, 2014:
Could it be "not quite complEmented by"? I.e. they did not make a fitting addition to her appearance,

Responses

+4
1 hr
Selected

not altogether flattered by / not at all flattered by

I am not American, so perhaps my reactions are not what you're looking for, but I find "not quite complimented by" unnatural. First, "complimented" seems to me the wrong word. What is apparently meant here is that the glasses do not make her look attractive, they do not improve her appearance (with the implication that they make her look much more unattractive). "Compliment" (to say something nice to someone) is often confused with "complement" (to combine well with something), and perhaps that has happened here; but "complemented" would not be right here either. You could say, for example, that her hairstyle was (or wasn't) complemented by her glasses, but you can't say it of her.

What I think is meant here is "flattered", in the sense of "shown to advantage":

"flatter
3 b: to display to advantage <candlelight often flatters the face>"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flatter

Alternatives might be "shown to advantage" or "shown in the best light".

Nor do I find "quite" convincing here. "Not quite complimented" would mean "nearly complimented"; the glasses did not make her look good but came close to doing so. This is probably not the intended meaning. It would be better to say "not altogether" or "not exactly", which would be understood as ironic understatement: meaning not at all. Alternatively the implicit meaning could be stated directly: "not at all flattered", "by no means flattered", "far from flattered".
Note from asker:
Thanks. American or not, your reactions are very much what I am looking for, no two ways about it. Complemented is definitely not it. I thought of "flattered", because yes, that's exactly what we are talking about here, the glasses made the girl look ugly, but somehow I couldn't plug it in properly. Hopefully, my brain will work better in the morning. Where I don't see eye to eye with you is on the "quite" issue. To my semi-native ears "not quite complimented/flattered/whatever" very much reads as "not complimented at all" with a healthy dose of sarcasm rather than "nearly complimented". In any case, thanks again.
Peer comment(s):
agree lorenab23 : My native ears feel the same way about the use of the word "quite". It DOES NOT very much read as "not flattering at all"
1 hr
Thanks, Lorena. I'm very glad you agree ahout that. This use of "quite" sound wrong to me, but I wondered whether it might be normal in American English :)
agree BrigitteHilgner : I (not an American) dare to agree.
4 hrs
Thanks, Brigitte. We foreigners must stick together :)
agree B D Finch : Well put!
7 hrs
Thanks very much!
agree Victoria Britten : With a strong preference for "not altogether", which to my ear nicely echoes the wry tone of "not quite"
9 hrs
Thanks, Victoria! I'm very glad you think so; that is what I was aiming for.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your input and the fun discussion. In the end, I reworded the original sentence altogether."
+1
2 hrs

unbecoming

I would turn around the sentence a bit to say that the glasses seem or are unbecoming.

Happy 2014!
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : A bit dated? Perhaps only if the setting is circa 1814!
5 hrs
agree Rachel Douglas : See my entry in the comment section for a couple of "turning it around" ideas. And "unbecoming" is not old-fashioned, in my experience.
11 hrs
Thanks and a happy 2014!
Something went wrong...
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