Hellinas (asker) Jun 20, 2011:

I didn't know who had made the remark 'I take your point about "Hellinas"' Too many such idiomatic phrases translated word-for-word.' I was merely defending my request for equivalent idioms. Sorry for any misunderstandings! The earliest occasion on which 'frog in the throat' occurs seems to be American in 1894, so I doubt the fanciful derivation from drinking frog spawn. Kyriacos's question about why was a frog chosen is, I think, reasonably clear. A cat is hairy and large and thus would block and tickle the throat; the same applies to the bulk of a frog and toad, large and croaky - a good description of the feeling. Whereas a cockroach in theory could be swallowed. There is online a recipe for stir fried cockroach and the Guinness book of records records a man who ate thirty six. Are most ProZ professionals aware of that homely phrase at the beginning of Aeschylus's Agamemnon? After a marvellous grand and majestic speech, the watchman ends with a homely idiom, explaining why he must keep silent about what is going on in the blood-soaked hosehold of the Atreidae. 'But I am silent', he says,' βοῦς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ μέγας/βέβηκεν'.Perhaps we could update the meaning of the proverb?!

Dave Bindon Jun 19, 2011:

Dear "Hellinas"
Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you've misunderstood me.
I know you want to find the nearest idiomatic equivalent. Since I'm not a native Greek speaker I can't help you. My conversation is with Kyriakos because he suggested something which, in my opinion, is not equivalent in meaning.
But, now that we're chatting, I'd really love it if you'd start a new topic in the Greek forum and introduce yourself, and explain why you're suddenly asking so many interesting questions. I track every question you ask!

Hellinas (asker) Jun 19, 2011:

I'm fully aware of the nature of idioms and the inability to translate some word for word idioms from one language to another but often there are parallel idioms:- in this particular instance 'avoir le chat dans la gorge [Nick]' in French and 'avere rospo in gulo' in Italian. I gave an explanation of my question beneath. I wanted more precision. Είμαι βραχνιασμένος/-η does not mean the same. I did suggest also ‘έκλεισε η φώνη μου’, which Nick modified and aikkoloka agreed on. I have a handbook of Greek idiomatic expressions viz. a Lexicon of Idioms and Slang by Stelios Marin and Kaktos's Lexiko Tis Ellinikis Argo (Lexiko Tis Piatsas), Athina 1999 Kaktos (2nd ed). As a fairly advanced learner, I submit very common English phrases or idioms to specialists who can think in Greek and English and have very many corresponding idioms to hand. I know very well all the Σιγά idioms - 'big deal'! You actually can nearly transfer some idioms from one language to another. The Latin idiom 'you've hit the nail on the head' is 'rem acu tetigisti' = you've touched the matter with a needle. But ElectraV's rendition is identical to 'to have a lump in the throat'.

Kyriacos Georghiou Jun 19, 2011:

I take your point about "Hellinas".
Too many such idiomatic phrases translated word-for-word. I'll give you one of my favourites: Σιγά τον πολυέλαιο .... slowly the very-oil

Dave Bindon Jun 19, 2011:

:) Life could become funny, if not surreal, if we simply translated idiomatic phrases word-for-word!
But "Hellinas" needs a Greek equivalent to the English phrase, and not a comedy script-writer!
Maybe we should start a new topic in the Greek Proz forum to have fun with Greek<>English idioms?

Kyriacos Georghiou Jun 19, 2011:

I do appreciate Dave that you cannot transfer idioms from one language to another. I wish we could. It would have made our lives as translators a lot easier. However, imagine yourself with a Greek audience and your throat was obstructed and you started croaking and you said "Μιλά ο βάτραχος" and went ahead and cleared your throat, would people understand what you meant? It might even be funny :)

Dave Bindon Jun 19, 2011:

cockroach Why τα μάτια σου δεκατέσσερα instead of τα μάτια σου δεκαέξι? It's an idiom, and doesn't need to make sense! It's one of the wonders of language!

Dave Bindon Jun 19, 2011:

It's the frog in my throat speaking No, that would really sound like misuse of English idioms. If it was a matter of how the voice sounds, we might say "My voice is a bit croaky". A "frog in the throat", however, prevents one from speaking. Some on-line sources suggest that it comes from a superstition that if you drink water from ponds it may contain frog-spawn, which then hatches and eventually [i] literally[/i] becomes a frog in your throat, and makes you unable to speak.

Kyriacos Georghiou Jun 19, 2011:

If the idea was to indicate just an obstruction in the throat, why was "frog" chosen in the English expression instead of say "a cockroach"?