Dec 27, 2007 10:55
16 yrs ago
French term
monarchies
French to English
Other
History
Hi
I'm having trouble understanding the reference to "monarchies" in this sentence about sport:
"L'anglais sport a pour racine le vieux français desport qui signifie loisirs, jeu, conversation. Plus tard ce terme abandonne sa connotation de divertissement pour se référer exclusivement aux activités physiques dont certaines restent à la frontière entre le sport et le jeu (billard, bowling) ou entre le sport et les loisirs intellectuels (échecs). Ainsi, demeurent-elles dans la conception des monarchies de l’ancien régime où le jeu est à la fois pari et défi, moments alors volés aux temps de travail et de prière."
A similar text, perhaps the inspiration for this one, appears in Le Monde and on other sites but without the reference to monarchies:
"Il faut mobiliser la réflexion historique, analyser le passage du "jeu" dans les sociétés d'Ancien Régime à l'invention du sport au XIXe siècle. Le jeu ancien, à la fois pari et défi, moments volés aux temps sociaux de labeur et de culte, est métamorphosé une fois devenu "sport" dans la société d'outre-Manche d'abord, dans la société française ensuite."
This second text makes perfect sense to me; it's less clear to me why "monarchies" appears in the first text. These "borderline sports" are part of the concept of the monarchy under the Ancien Regime? Or part of the monarchy's concept of sport? Nor did the Court work so why the reference to "temps de travail" in relation to the monarchies?
I'd appreciate your ideas on this (not necessarily translations, more your understanding of the text).
Many thanks!
I'm having trouble understanding the reference to "monarchies" in this sentence about sport:
"L'anglais sport a pour racine le vieux français desport qui signifie loisirs, jeu, conversation. Plus tard ce terme abandonne sa connotation de divertissement pour se référer exclusivement aux activités physiques dont certaines restent à la frontière entre le sport et le jeu (billard, bowling) ou entre le sport et les loisirs intellectuels (échecs). Ainsi, demeurent-elles dans la conception des monarchies de l’ancien régime où le jeu est à la fois pari et défi, moments alors volés aux temps de travail et de prière."
A similar text, perhaps the inspiration for this one, appears in Le Monde and on other sites but without the reference to monarchies:
"Il faut mobiliser la réflexion historique, analyser le passage du "jeu" dans les sociétés d'Ancien Régime à l'invention du sport au XIXe siècle. Le jeu ancien, à la fois pari et défi, moments volés aux temps sociaux de labeur et de culte, est métamorphosé une fois devenu "sport" dans la société d'outre-Manche d'abord, dans la société française ensuite."
This second text makes perfect sense to me; it's less clear to me why "monarchies" appears in the first text. These "borderline sports" are part of the concept of the monarchy under the Ancien Regime? Or part of the monarchy's concept of sport? Nor did the Court work so why the reference to "temps de travail" in relation to the monarchies?
I'd appreciate your ideas on this (not necessarily translations, more your understanding of the text).
Many thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +6 | du temps des monarchies | JSB |
5 | court | ybfishel |
3 | royalty | Pierre POUSSIN |
3 | the royal "ancients régimes" | Etienne Muylle Wallace |
Change log
Feb 23, 2011 15:52: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Term asked" from "monarchies (please see sentence)" to "monarchies "
Proposed translations
+6
20 mins
French term (edited):
monarchies (please see sentence)
Selected
du temps des monarchies
Actually the author is talking about the conception of game at the "period" of the "monarchies de l'Ancien Régime" more than the "monarchies" themselves ; it could be rewritten as "(la conception du jeu) au temps des monarchies de l'Ancien Régime". In the second text this expression is paraphrased as " les sociétés d'Ancien Régime".
Note from asker:
Thanks. Your answer appeared just as I posted my note. Your explanation certainly makes sense to me. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Emma Paulay
: This is how I see it too. "As things were seen and done at the time of..."
11 mins
|
agree |
simona trapani
41 mins
|
agree |
Vania de Souza
43 mins
|
agree |
thyminfo (X)
1 hr
|
agree |
Pierre POUSSIN
1 hr
|
agree |
emiledgar
3 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, I think you've hit the nail on the head! "
17 mins
French term (edited):
monarchies (please see sentence)
royalty
But keep it singular! Or you might use "the Royals" even though it is slightly different. But not "royalties" IMHO!
Note from asker:
Thanks. It's really the reference to monarchies that has me puzzled, not how to translate the word. |
1 hr
French term (edited):
monarchies (please see sentence)
the royal "ancients régimes"
just a proposal
21 hrs
French term (edited):
monarchies (please see sentence)
court
what is being discussed here is how sport developed as an aristocratic pass time, in many ways as a substitute for warfare and killing. you are quite right that the word monarchies is unessential in the first text -- its just thrown in along with anciens regimes. I at first thought it meant sports dynasties, but that doesn't seem to be what is being discussed here.
Discussion
And a Happy New year!