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Une enceinte de confinement simple ou double
sous combles

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

ARTISAN-CRÉATEUR

English translation:

Craft artist

Added to glossary by KMPrice
May 9, 2012 01:39
12 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

ARTISAN-CRÉATEUR

French to English Art/Literary Other occupation
Survey question that asks "lequel des deux mots décrit le mieux ce que représente pour vous un ARTISAN-CRÉATEUR ?"

It's a short survey to see how familiar the average consumer is with "l'Artisanat et les Métiers d'Art". This question immediately follows a question asking which word best describes un ARTISTE DES MÉTIERS D’ART, so I have to be precise in differentiating between the two.


(and of course, I received the job this aft, and it's due tonight...isn't it always?)
Proposed translations (English)
4 craft makers / designer makers / artisans
4 +1 DESIGNER CRAFTSMAN
Change log

May 9, 2012 12:06: Simon Mac changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): BrigitteHilgner, Helen Shiner, Simon Mac

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Discussion

Cyril B. May 11, 2012:
Glad I could help :)
KMPrice (asker) May 10, 2012:
that was pretty funny, Cyril (re: setting it straight for the reader). Made the start of my workday a little lighter.
Cyril B. May 10, 2012:
Fair enough, I agree that 'craft artist' is the best-sounding candidate on this page.

As for 'designer craftsperson', as you say, it's rather cumbersome, and I think it'd be a serious mistake for a translator to go for cumbersome target terms in order to satisfy their own need of PC. What will that translator do the day they have to translate a controversial text? Set it straight for the reader?
KMPrice (asker) May 9, 2012:
'tis neither here nor there, in the end, as I really like Helen's "craft artist". Had I used yours though, Cyril, I would have stayed true to the PC Canadian female that I am, and used "designer craftsperson" - as cumbersome as that is.
Helen Shiner May 9, 2012:
@Cyril To be honest, Cyril, any shoving is in your mind. I am leaving this discussion now, as I have far better things to do with my time.
Cyril B. May 9, 2012:
I'm only anti-PC when it's being shoved down my screen :>

You started this discussion by alleging that 'craftsman' was no longer valid _because_ of the gender limitation it carries. Do you have some kind of reference, some discussion of the crafts council maybe, to back that claim?
Helen Shiner May 9, 2012:
Crafts Council If the Crafts Council is happy with designer maker or designer-maker, then I am, since it is perfectly comprehensible to a native speaker.
Helen Shiner May 9, 2012:
Cyril This is no PC crusade - that is what is so silly. I am merely reflecting in my discussion what is happening in the real world. Sorry you don't like it. The use of 'artists' in the US is also loaded. Evidently, there is a tendency to move away from the applied arts being considered secondary to the fine arts. This has nothing to do with my personal opinions; it also reflects what is happening in the real world. Being anti-PC is as much a political stance as being pro-PC, by the way; I prefer to assist the Asker with the facts of current everyday experience in the field.
Cyril B. May 9, 2012:
Completely disagreing with me would have been dishonest as my suggestion is valid. Just as those you offered... Possibly better because we don't know who the target of this survey is, it could well be foreign tourists whose first language is not English, and for whom "designer craftsman" will be perfectly clear while terms like "designer maker" might bring confusion only: what is a "designer maker"? someone who makes designers? some kind of teacher?
...But I know your suggestion is perfectly valid, and I leave it alone.

As for taking it personally... Hmm, no. I don't know you and you most probably don't know me, so how could it be personal? I'm just defending my -valid- suggestion against some PC crusade which I find inappropriate after a while.
Helen Shiner May 9, 2012:
@Cyril I am not advocating that anyone should not 'live' - what a silly comment! I am just trying to help the Asker reach an informed decision based on what current usage is, particularly in terms of what is being advocated and used by official crafts bodies in the US and the UK. I know many makers, most of them women, and not one of them refers to themselves as a craftsman. I am sorry you are taking it so personally. I could just have completely disagreed with you.
Cyril B. May 9, 2012:
@ Helen _You_ say the term I suggested is not current. I provided references showing that many people, most probably including many women, refer to themselves that way. They probably disagree with you about them being abeyed or not current. And I'll agree with them! Please let them live :>
Cyril B. May 9, 2012:
Thank you Brigitte!
Thank you Salih!

I don't even know why we'd need to use AE instead of BE here, but here are a couple AE references anyway:
http://ohiocraft.org/
www.alabamadesignercraftsmen.com
azdesignercraftsmen.org
Salih YILDIRIM May 9, 2012:
I do share definition given by Cyril.
BrigitteHilgner May 9, 2012:
I would agree with Cyril if I could, but since I am not paying for the pleasure of being able to answer proz.com questions or for supporting answers which I consider appropriate I can't.

Proposed translations

7 hrs
Selected

craft makers / designer makers / artisans

The Crafts Council in the UK refers to such people as designer makers. They have a national registry of craft makers: http://www.craftscouncil.org.uk/craft-directory/makers/

See also:
http://www.craftmaker.co.uk/

http://www.craftscotland.org/community/Funding/



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Note added at 7 hrs (2012-05-09 09:19:08 GMT)
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I suspect there is a need to avoid gender distinctions and the unwieldy 'craftspeople', though I do hear that a lot also. I really would avoid using 'craftsman' since so many people working in the field are female.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2012-05-09 10:16:42 GMT)
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http://www.cockpitarts.com/designer-maker-directory

Interestingly, the equivalent umbrella organisations in the US refer to makers as artists. See, for instance, http://www.craftcouncil.org/artists

I can see, however, that this would be too vague for your purposes, but maybe you can find something appropriate in amongst the articles on the site.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2012-05-09 10:19:14 GMT)
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Another American site, this time using 'craft artists': http://silvermineart.org.fqdns.net/exhibition/craft-usa

I suspect, if you need a US term, this would be the way to go.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2012-05-09 10:21:58 GMT)
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http://www.americanstyle.com/2012/03/style-spotlight-craft-a...

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Note added at 1 day21 hrs (2012-05-10 23:17:13 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to help, Karen.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I really liked craft artist. Thanks, Helen!"
+1
47 mins

DESIGNER CRAFTSMAN

Peer comment(s):
agree Nicky Over
4 hrs
Thank you Nicky
neutral Helen Shiner : This is fine, but excludes women makers and for that reason has tended to fall in abeyance in the UK at least, but I think anyway that we should be trying to find a US term./Why choose a term that is not current? My comment related to your UK source.
7 hrs
Well... Source term is masculine, isn't it? Translators aren't supposed to insert PCness if it's not in the source text. As for 'craftsman' or 'designer craftsman' being BE and not AE... really?
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