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maison de famille
Apr 9, 2019 09:21
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

à telle fin de droit valoir à la requérante

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
Can anyone translate "à telle fin de droit valoir à la requérante" in English

ce fait pour son information et direction à telle fin de droit valoir à la requérante
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 for such lawful/legal purpose as may serve the [claimant]
4 for such purpose of serving and availing the (female/corporate) applicant where needful

Discussion

AllegroTrans Apr 11, 2019:
My only point Is that this a 'general' phrase albeit in a legal document, evidenced by the fact that it's about information that a party may (or may not) wish to use. That’s why I agree with Eliza's 9 word suggestion.
Eliza Hall Apr 11, 2019:
@ AllegroTrans Well, my proposed translation only uses 9 words, so I think we're good :)

But that said, sometimes "being legalistic" makes your client win or avoid a lawsuit, while "not being legalistic" has the opposite effect. There's a reason lawyers do what we do. Words that may seem superfluous, archaic or needlessly formal from a "plain English" perspective may have a specific meaning within the law that makes an important difference to the client's bottom line.

Also, with respect to your comment that "For 'such purpose' is hardly 'legal'. The purpose has to be 'lawful' (goes without saying)" -- the words legal or lawful are not translating "such purpose/telle fin," they're translating "de droit." And as you can see from the fact that the original French says "de droit," it doesn't go without saying. The original text says it, and we're translators, not editors.
AllegroTrans Apr 11, 2019:
yes it's legal... but very general. No need to be legalistic or to use 20 word when 10 will suffice
Eliza Hall Apr 11, 2019:
@AllegroTrans Why get legal? Because it's a legal document. They're written in legalese, not normal English or normal French.
AllegroTrans Apr 11, 2019:
Not a legal or academic exercise at all For "such purpose" is hardly "legal". The purpose has to be"lawful" (goes without saying) and anyway it's "for his/her information" so why get legalistic about such a general and wide-ranging phrase?
Adrian MM. Apr 10, 2019:
No results found but...pour valoir ce que de droit Looks like a variation on a theme, albeit with non-legal force:

droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/faq/46012-pour-faire-valoir-ce-que-de-droit-definition

Though the focus of the comments below is on 'à telle fin' - ce que de droit or fin de droit is notarial-speak for such purpose as is appropriate.
AllegroTrans Apr 10, 2019:
à telle fin For such purpose. End of. Cannot see Daryo's problem.
Eliza Hall Apr 9, 2019:
@ Daryo I don't think it can only be used for a specific, previously stated purpose. "Telle" means "such," but as in English legalese, it doesn't have to refer to anything previously stated, or to anything specific. "The leasehold premises may be utilized for such lawful purpose as tenant may choose," for instance, has no prior referent: it just means any lawful purpose.

And that interpretation is supported by the text itself: why does "telle" match "fin" in gender and number? Because it's modifying "fin," not some previously stated word. It means "such purpose" (or such end, such goal, etc.).
Daryo Apr 9, 2019:
It looks like this document (certificate of some kind?) can be used only for some specific previously stated purpose.

But I have seen too many cases where something apparently "obvious" gets turned on its head once more context is available to rush to any conclusions.
Eliza Hall Apr 9, 2019:
Telle = fin, non? "To such end" or "to such purpose."
Daryo Apr 9, 2019:
No results found for "à telle fin de droit valoir"
so "telle" is NOT part of some standard formulation - without knowing to what "telle" refers we can only play at shooting in the dark - not the best way to hit the target.

Proposed translations

+3
5 hrs
Selected

for such lawful/legal purpose as may serve the [claimant]

Requérente: brackets on proposed translation because it depends on context and the specific facts of the case. In litigation, requérent(e) could be petitioner, claimant, applicant, appellant, plaintiff...

Old ProZ question: "à telle fin de droit" = "for such lawful/legal purpose" https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/416...

Valoir (in legal documents): assert (a claim), enforce, notify...
Valoir à qqn: I googled "valoir au requérant" and every response was either "faire valoir" ("la division a fait valoir au requérant que la décision prise était conforme aux clauses" blablabla), "valoir au requéreant ce que de droit," or in one case, ladite transgression est de nature à valoir au requérant le prononcé d'un blâme aux sens des articles XYZ de la loi ABC.

Since the OP's text is not of the "faire valoir" type, and it appears to be the usual blabla stated above the signature in official declarations/notarized statements/etc., it literally means to be of value to the claimant. In other words, this document was signed (or delivered -- you see this language in official statements that a huissier delivered a document to X party on behalf of Y party) in order to in some way help the requester. You could translate that in many ways; I chose "as may serve."
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : Yes, asker needs to check for appropriate word for requérante
9 hrs
Yep. Thanks.
agree Yvonne Gallagher
21 hrs
neutral Adrian MM. : you and the agrees may need to check the non-legal force of 'de droit' droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/faq/46012-pour-faire-valoir-ce-que-de-droit-definition - and, if this is an affidavit of service, the requérante as a deponent might be the defendant
1 day 7 hrs
agree Simon Charass
1 day 23 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
3 hrs

for such purpose of serving and availing the (female/corporate) applicant where needful

A 'broad' notarial or Commissioner for Oaths (as I used to be) approach is needed or 'needful'.

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2019-04-11 09:21:11 GMT)
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Here is also a suggestion from a Notary Public: “for information and guidance and for such purposes as are legally available to the applicant "
Reference:

http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/307761-a-valoir-ce-qui-de-droit.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : Right idea but too convoluted // well I can think of at least four more (all equally valid) formulae to express this
11 hrs
Don't be misled by the 'de droit' droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/faq/46012-pour-faire-valoir-ce-que-de-droit-definition
Something went wrong...