https://www.proz.com/kudoz/czech-to-english/government-politics/3084700-to-co-evropskou-unii-do-budoucna-mus%C3%AD-ct%C3%ADt.html?phpv_redirected=1&phpv_redirected=2
This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
sočný
vnos
Feb 13, 2009 16:06
15 yrs ago
Czech term

to, co Evropskou unii do budoucna musí ctít

Czech to English Social Sciences Government / Politics
Svobodná diskuze je to, **co Evropskou unii do budoucna musí ctít,** ne abychom ji omezovali.

My translation, as it stands, is very clunky:
Free discussion is what must honour the European Union in future, not in order that we should restrict it.

While it's possible to stand back a bit from the literal meaning, and write something that sounds all right in English, I'm not 100% sure I have properly understood the Czech.

In particular, how do you understand ctít : honour? do credit to, reflect honour on?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 to be a virtue
4 Free discussion is what must
3 we should be proud of the free discussion in EU, not to limit it
3 must respect
3 what the European Union must be honoured for in the future

Discussion

Dylan Edwards (asker) Feb 13, 2009:
I'm glad it's not just me... and that others find this use of ctít a bit odd. I wanted to make 'Evr. unie' the subject. However, it's possible to find a valid meaning in the dictionary... I just took it as fancy language.
Jana Zajicova Feb 13, 2009:
Hm... As I already said, the "abychom" part is not really standard.
As regards "ctít", you can say: Splnil svůj slib, přestože to bylo velice obtížné, a to ho ctí.
So something (a virtue, a good deed) can "ctít" (be to the credit of) a person or an organization. Nevertheless, I consider the usage of "ctít" in Topolánek's sentence somewhat untypical. I am not sure I would call it ungrammatical.
Rad Graban (X) Feb 13, 2009:
I'm not sure about the bad grammar... ...see my suggestion.
Jennifer Taylor Feb 13, 2009:
Thanks Jana So Gerry and Stuart are right in saying it's just poor grammar? Or is it actually possible to say this...? :) (Gosh, my brain knows it's Friday!)
Jana Zajicova Feb 13, 2009:
:) Yes, I can imagine that this usage is confusing for you, guys, since you would expect it the other way round (Evropská unie musí ctít svobodnou diskusi - a perfectly valid sentence as well). Dylan captured it nicely, I think. I can't think of anything closer than "to do credit to".
You could also say "svobodná diskuse musí být ke cti Evropské unie", which is similar to "to do credit to".
Dylan Edwards (asker) Feb 13, 2009:
Should the EU honour free discussion (free speech, debate....), or should free discussion honour the EU? I'm glad others have raised this point. I'm not sure whether he intended to say it this way round or not. As I understand it, ctít as used here means something like 'do credit to', 'do (s/one, sth.) credit'.
Gerry Vickers Feb 13, 2009:
Cases It is what we might call a 'Prescottism' :)
Jennifer Taylor Feb 13, 2009:
Cases I'm also having problems understanding the use of the accusative case instead of the nominative for EU.... Could anyone explain what the difference in meaning would be? (I feel stupid for not getting this but it seems Dylan's brought up an interesting usage that we native speakers so far *seem* to be muddled by.)

Proposed translations

+1
7 mins
Selected

to be a virtue

The "in order to" part is misleading.

Free discussion must be a virtue of the EU in the future. It must not be stifled.

Or:

The EU must take pride in free discussion instead of restricting.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2009-02-13 16:16:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By the way, the "ne abychom" part actually means "je nemyslitelné, abychom ji omezovali".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2009-02-13 16:26:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'd classify it as a clumsy formulation. As you probably know, Mirek Topolánek uttered it when replying to the members of the European Parliament. It was not a prepared speech.
Note from asker:
Thanks. This makes sense. The 'ne abychom' was a problem too. Perhaps it's a rhetorical kind of phrase?
Peer comment(s):
agree Jana Bedanova
58 mins
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, and thanks to everyone who responded. "
11 mins

we should be proud of the free discussion in EU, not to limit it

This is the meaning, but you, as a native speaker, should refine it :-)
Something went wrong...
23 mins

must respect

Couldn't it be that Mirek wanted to use Evropska unie, but lost his train of thought?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2009-02-13 16:34:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... Evrospka unie musi ctit, nikoli omezovat...
Something went wrong...
48 mins

what the European Union must be honoured for in the future

That's how I get it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2009-02-13 17:05:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...not for restricting it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-02-13 17:08:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry. "...not restricting it".
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

Free discussion is what must

what must honor the EU in the future and not restrictions (limitations or...).
I think the original sentence is to compound and not very proper either. Using a passive verb is more common but wrong in Slovak as in English l. as well and we should not do it.
Something went wrong...