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Agora que idade tem?
capazes de gozo

Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

a brancura embainhada de um lenço

English translation:

a bright white, hemmed kerchief

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Apr 17, 2022 16:31
2 yrs ago
17 viewers *
Portuguese term

a brancura embainhada de um lenço

Portuguese to English Other Poetry & Literature Lyrical poetry
De outra algibeira, alada
Ponta a roçar o solo,
A brancura embainhada
De um lenço... Deu-lho a criada
Velha que o trouxe ao colo.
-- Fernando Pessoa

To me, it conjures up a very white handkerchief. How could this be expressed without using an adjective intensifier?
Is there a single adjective that conveys this idea? (The phrase has to be short.)

Note: I've seen a few instances of "the sheated whiteness of a handkerchief", most of which in translations of this poem but also in this example: "Stevens looked down incuriously at the sheathed whiteness of his shattered leg."

I don't like the fact that it's too long. The translation has to be short to fit in.

In my previous question, I posted the translation of the entire poem. You might want to read it to get a better idea of the context.

Here's what I have for this particular stanza:

Out of the other pocket, the tip
Of a white handkerchief
Brushes the ground.
It was a gift from an old maid
Who had nurtured him.

L2: US_EN
Register: poetic
Proposed translations (English)
4 the tip, of a hemmed, white handkerchief
4 +2 whiteness of a hemmed handkerchief
References
Deu-lho a criada Velha que o trouxe ao...
Change log

Apr 19, 2022 13:01: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a white, hemmed kerchief""

Apr 19, 2022 13:01: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a white hemmed kerchief""

Apr 19, 2022 14:53: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a bright white, hemmed kerchief""

Apr 19, 2022 14:53: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a white, hemmed kerchief""

Apr 19, 2022 14:53: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a bright white, hemmed kerchief""

Apr 19, 2022 14:53: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "a brancura embainhada de um lenço"" to ""a bright white, hemmed kerchief""

Discussion

Oliver Simões (asker) Apr 19, 2022:
@Lara Thank you for your suggestions. I'd rather stick to what I already have, with the addition of "bright" to emphasize the whiteness. It's virtually impossible to rhyme and keep the original meaning at the same time. For example, it cannot be assumed that the maid hemmed the handkerchief herself. That's not in the poem. It only says that the handkerchief was "white" and "hemmed", it doesn't say hemmed by whom. She could have bought it at the store, right? My overall approach is that meaning should take precedence over rhyming. Primarily, we are translators of meanings, not forms. In the case of poetry, it would be ideal to have both, but in most cases, it's just wishful thinking.

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Lara Barnett Apr 18, 2022:
@ Oliver Or, if you require rhyming words, you could try:

"From the other pocket, the handkerchief's
White tip..... hemmed all around
by the dear old maid
Brushed up against the ground"
Lara Barnett Apr 18, 2022:
@ Oliver As per my suggestions, you could try to restructure it a bit, using hemmed as a verb - I would, as in my last entry in my answer. Obviously, you could leave the same structure, that would be your own choice. But I don't think something like this loses any of its lyrical impact:
"From the other pocket, the white point,
of a handkerchief..... hemmed together
by the old maid
brushed against the ground"
Simone Taylor Apr 18, 2022:
I have just seen your question on my comment, and yes, sorry, I think poetry and the kudoz format don't match :-). I was looking at the original trying to translate the sentence and missed that you did indeed write "tip" of a white handkerchief in your translation underneath. In this case, it would be the tip of a white hemmed handkerchief. I don't think kerchief would fit as it is more like a scarf.

A "handkerchief" primarily refers to a napkin made of cloth, used to maintain personal hygiene. A kerchief (from the French couvre-chef, "cover the head") is a triangular or square piece of cloth tied around the head or around the neck for protective or decorative purposes.
Oliver Simões (asker) Apr 18, 2022:
@Lara, Thank you for your suggestion. I agree in part. "Hemmed" is the right meaning for this context. I did not assume that "sheated" was correct. I only made a comment that I thought the translation I found was too long. As far as the adjective order that you proposed, I would switch it around. Color takes precedence over type, and in this particular it's important to put color first because that's what I want to emphasize. See https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/... The solution here, in my opinion, is to incorporate Katarina's suggestion (i.e. "kerchief"). Apparently, it's a term used in literary circles. The translation would read, "white, hemmed kerchief". I also like it because it's shorter.
Lara Barnett Apr 17, 2022:
Sheathed I don't think this is the verb required, and the sense is not translated this way. Surely this verb refers to the hem of the handkerchief. Is this not correct? If not, what do you mean through using sheathed to describe either a handkerchief or a colour?
PS. I think that the "sheathed whiteness" might refer to a bandage used to set (or help heal) this person's injured leg - in the sense that a sheath is a covering of some sort.

Proposed translations

45 mins
Selected

the tip, of a hemmed, white handkerchief

As per my discussion box entry of earlier. I would use hemmed in this case, but I would restructure the surrounding text in such way as:

And from the top of the other pocket
the tip of a hemmed, white
handkerchief.... made by the....
[etc, etc...]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2022-04-17 17:19:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Type; sorry, there should be no comma after tip. Perhaps:

"From out of the other pocket, the tip
of a hemmed, white
handkerchief.... made b the
.....[etc...}"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2022-04-17 17:21:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"A red-and-blue-striped tie was pulled around his neck, and the TIP OF A WHITE HANDKERCHIEF was peeking out of his suit pocket."
https://www.readinggroupguides.com/reviews/looking-for-salva...

While, as explained earlier in the discussion box, the use of "hemmed" might be more suitable here, rather than sheathed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2022-04-17 17:28:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or even:

"From the other pocket, the white POINT
of a hemmed handkerchief....made by the ???
brushing the ground..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2022-04-17 17:30:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or perhaps you could slightly alter the structure:

"From the other pocket, the white point,
of a handkerchief..... hemmed together
by the old maid
brushed against the ground"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2022-04-18 15:22:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"hemmed all around" is an option for using the verb form:

"From the other pocket, the handkerchief's
White tip..... hemmed all around
by the dear old maid
Brushed soft against the ground."
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you again. I made a few adjustments to fit the poem better."
+2
35 mins

whiteness of a hemmed handkerchief

Here the meaning of embainhada most probably refers to the handkerchief hem, which was frequently laced or adorned in some way.

https://context.reverso.net/translation/portuguese-english/e...
Note from asker:
Thank you. How would "tip" (ponta) fit in with the translation of you have suggested?
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lara Barnett : As I explained in the discussion box.
3 mins
You are assuming I needed your explanation to know that. I merely wrote down my suggestion before yours. I hadn't even read your comment.
agree Katarina Peters : or kerchief?
3 hrs
Thank you!
agree Mario Freitas :
3 hrs
Thank you!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Deu-lho a criada
Velha que o trouxe ao colo
Portanto trata-se mesmo de um lenço, porque com o FP nunca se sabe.
A brancura está embainhada num lenço como a espada pode estar na bainha.
Isto é uma comparação metafórica que um poeta da sua craveira está autorizado a empregar, ‘the sheated whiteness’ está muito bem, qualquer outra tradução tira-lhe o sentido de originalidade e aí temos de pensar ‘bem, isto é mesmo tradução’.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Cristiano Berhanu
1 hr
Obrigado
Something went wrong...