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May 22, 2008 14:06
15 yrs ago
Japanese term

素朴な信仰

Japanese to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
長崎県壱岐郡芦辺町に実在する月読神社。月読尊は天照大神弟の神とし月読見尊、月弓尊を祭る。イメージとして流布される神社に対する素朴な信仰。

whole sentences doesn't make much sense, but...
i don't think it's possible to say "subtle belief" in english? any good way to translate 「素朴な信仰」.
please help!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 unpretentious belief
4 +3 simple/idyllic/unsophisticated faith (in the shrine)
4 ingenuous belief
4 naive faith

Discussion

Nobuo Kameyama May 23, 2008:
そうした「素朴」さをも表現するとなると、"unpretentious"、"simple"、"ingenuous"のいずれでも間に合いません。また、残念ながら私の貧弱な英語力では、「人と森の生命が一体化」していた当時の「素朴な信仰」を英語にする力はありません。なお、このあたりは色々な書籍がありますが、日本のシャーマニズムに関する入門編として、青井汎氏が著した『宮崎アニメの暗号』（新潮新書）あたりから入ることをお勧めします。ともあれ、今回は二つの文化の架け橋である翻訳の限界を見る思いがしたものです。
Nobuo Kameyama May 23, 2008:
無論、Davidさんの"simple"を使って、"simple belief"としたり、Aogaraさんの"ingenuous belief"も良いと思います。ただし、さらに一歩突っ込んでみるに、神道における「素朴な信仰」の「素朴」には単なる見かけ上のシンプルさだけではなく、その深層に潜むシャーマニズム、もっと端的に言うと嘗て人と森の生命が一体化していた太古の昔に見られた「素朴」さが隠されていると思うし、それが神道の信仰の「素朴」さの底流に流れていると思います。
Nobuo Kameyama May 23, 2008:
次に、Cobuidは"unpretentious"のことを以下のように定義しています。
"If you describe a place, person, or thing as unpretentious, you approve of them because they are simple in appearance or character, rather than sophisticated or luxurious."　
以上から、"unpretentious"ても問題ないのは明らかです。
Nobuo Kameyama May 23, 2008:
Davidさん、私が岡田さんに同意したのは、神道における信仰とは"faith"ではなく、"belief "であると思っているからです。次に、岡田さんの"unpretentious"が原意の「素朴」から逸脱しているというDavidさんのご意見には賛成できません。最初に、国語辞書である『大辞林』では、「素朴」のことを「飾り気がなく、ありのままなこと。また、そのさま」と定義しており、例として「白木造りの素朴な神社建築」を挙げているのが印象的です。

Proposed translations

+6
45 mins
Selected

unpretentious belief

素朴な is a positive word, so its translation has to convey that nuance. I think there are other ways to say it, but what came to my mind is unpretentious. I think faith is pretty good, but what the person is believing in probably not very systematic like well-established religion, so I would say "belief."
Peer comment(s):
agree humbird : "Belief" is far better than "faith" in this case. It may not be approriate to call Shito "faith".
1 hr
有難うございます
agree Daniel Felice : "Unpretentious" is a good choice here.
2 hrs
有難うございます
agree Nobuo Kameyama : 鰯の頭も信心からとあるように、神道の「信仰」は、西洋における唯一の神への"faith"とは全く異なる次元のものであることは明らかですね。この点、humbirdさんのご意見に同感です。それにしても、「素朴」という難解な日本語に、"unpretentious"という英語を当てはめたokada-san、お見事です！　
4 hrs
有難うございます
agree Aogara : Nice!
8 hrs
agree AniseK
10 hrs
neutral David Higbee : Whether "unpretentious" is a nice word or not is beside the point. Doesn't this change the meaning of the original?
1 day 2 hrs
agree MedSpecialis (X) : Direct translation can be "simple belief," but I think "simple" would not convey the deeper meaning of 素朴な. So, "unpretentious" is a perfect fit here.
7 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
10 hrs

ingenuous belief

Just another alternative for 素朴な.
As it is to modify "belief" here, "ingenuous" perhaps expresses the simple but pure and innocent nature of 素朴な better.
Something went wrong...
+3
14 mins

simple/idyllic/unsophisticated faith (in the shrine)

"素朴" is something unsophisticated or simple. "信仰" is faith or a strong conviction or beleif in something.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2008-05-23 17:17:55 GMT)
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Simple is not at all negative, neither is idyllic. "Unsophisticated" was given as variation.
Peer comment(s):
neutral humbird : I commented "agree" but have to take back. Please see reason in my comment to Mr. Okada.
1 hr
agree Kanako Fujiwara : I always thought it was “simple faith”.　　Or, am I too simple? :D
1 hr
agree Ruth Sato : I agree with "simple faith".
18 hrs
agree Alex Farrell (X) : "Simple faith" is also what first came to my mind.
1 day 21 hrs
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56 mins

naive faith

素朴 may mean naive so that you can translate it as naive faith.
You may find this site helpful:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/religion/211827-na�ve_faith....

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Note added at 1 day13 hrs (2008-05-24 03:27:22 GMT)
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Please search the word 'naive' in thesaurus/any dictionary. Positively in means simple/innocent. It's not always negative, but it depends on the context. Like the example above that said "The Bible indicates that the faith by which one can become righteous and blessed is the naive faith in God's words just like the faith of Abraham". It means when you believe in something just like Children believe, you belive in something without questioning and it's unconditional faith. Please don't think that the word naive always contain a bad meaning.
Peer comment(s):
disagree humbird : Are you aware of negative connotation in this word? There is no such idea in the Japanese. I totally disagree. Or is this typo of "native"? Then it's a whole different story.
1 hr
well it is used even in other religions (see the example above). Although it has negative connotation, it depends on the context/story. I provided more choices for the asker without any intention to discredit others. Sorry for those who don't feel good.
agree mstkwasa : The word "naive" has negative connotations today. Its etymological origins, L nativus and MF naif/ve, and C17 usage however betray the (positive) notions of "natural and unaffected", and fits the bill, alas, only to the Jacobeans among us.
4 days
Thank you
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