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KudoZ: Should vote pro/non-pro options be eliminated?
Thread poster: Barbara Cochran, MFA
Barbara Cochran, MFA
Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
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Apr 30, 2019

Should the "vote non-pro/vote pro" options that appear at the bottom of kudoz question pages on this website be eliminated?

Gina W
 
Christopher Schröder
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Absolutely not Apr 30, 2019

How else are you supposed to express utter incredulity at the ignorance of the asker and indicate that they should exit the profession forthwith?

Thomas Pfann
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Thomas Pfann
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  Apr 30, 2019

No.

writeaway
Josephine Cassar
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mk_lab
texjax DDS PhD
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Elizabeth Tamblin
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Correct me if I'm wrong Apr 30, 2019

Chris S wrote:

How else are you supposed to express utter incredulity at the ignorance of the asker and indicate that they should exit the profession forthwith?


I thought anybody could ask questions on Kudoz, not just professional translators.


Josephine Cassar
Gina W
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Elena Doroshenko
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Mikhail Kropotov
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The asker should have the final say Apr 30, 2019

Many of my questions have been wrongly reclassified by 'peer consensus' as non-Pro, against my will and to the detriment of the answers the questions attracted.

[Edited at 2019-04-30 18:49 GMT]


Josephine Cassar
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Gina W
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neilmac
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
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My opinion May 1, 2019

My opinion is that the PRO/non-PRO classification should just be eliminated. It makes no sense to me... After all, we are all professionals here and we can't know everything...

P.S. I'm reproducing exactly what I said in 2010 about this subject.


Christopher Schröder
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Fiona Grace Peterson
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Why? May 1, 2019

Barbara Cochran, MFA wrote:

Should the "vote non-pro/vote pro" options that appear at the bottom of kudoz question pages on this website be eliminated?


I would be interested to know why you're posing the question, Barbara. Normally when someone posts a question such as this, they also give their own opinion. I'd be interested to hear yours.


writeaway
Michele Fauble
Germaine
philgoddard
 
neilmac
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Interesting question, but NO May 1, 2019

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Barbara Cochran, MFA wrote:

Should the "vote non-pro/vote pro" options that appear at the bottom of kudoz question pages on this website be eliminated?


I would be interested to know why you're posing the question, Barbara. Normally when someone posts a question such as this, they also give their own opinion. I'd be interested to hear yours.


Although it really gets my goat when certain people (you know who you are) decide to mark down my queries as non-pro, I still think the function serves a purpose. It's probably one of the few ways left nowadays to point the finger at non-native intruders punching above their weight without causing too much offence or umbrage.

Having made a living from translation for at least a couple of decades, I tend to assume that I am considered a professional, to all intents and purposes, at least by my portfolio of clients, if not certain colleagues; therefore, if I post a query as PRO, then I believe it should be considered a pro query, however innocent and simple it may seem. For example, sometimes I simply want to elicit opinions from colleagues or do a bit of brainstorming about some point or other that has arisen, either during translation or elsewhere.

In fact, the dissing annoyed me so much that for a while I simply entered all my queries as non-pro, but then people started changing some of them to pro. Sometimes you just can't win.

Whatever the case, I'm grateful to Barbara for raising the issue here, and I'd like to use the platform to respectfully ask the people who keep voting my queries non-pro to GATAFF.


Robert Forstag
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Samuel Murray
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No, but... May 1, 2019

Barbara Cochran, MFA wrote:
Should the "vote non-pro/vote pro" options that appear at the bottom of KudoZ question pages on this website be eliminated?


No, but perhaps we should talk about what happens when people click that button. Should it be up to the button clickers to decide (by "vote") whether a post is pro or non-pro, or should the final decision lie with the asker or with the winning answerer, i.e. the votes are simply recommendations by peers?

And why is there only a "vote pro" or a "vote non-pro" button (instead of both)?

And if a question is demoted from pro to non-pro, how should the amount of rewarded points be affected?

And should people who haven't voted yet, be allowed to see how many other people have voted yet? And should they be allowed to vote against a vote that was made by others?

I believe these are the things that prompt some people to suggest that the "vote non-pro/vote pro" option should simply be eliminated.

[Edited at 2019-05-01 11:51 GMT]


 
Robert Forstag
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Absolutely not May 1, 2019

I essentially agree with neilmac and Chris S. here. I would only add that I think that the need for retaining the distinction has become even more pressing in recent years, in an increasingly competitive environment featuring (at least in the more common language pairs) an overabundance of wannabes and never-gonna-bes who are somehow able to secure work and (apparently) produce acceptable output – in part with the help of forums like Kudoz.

Within such an environment, it is simpl
... See more
I essentially agree with neilmac and Chris S. here. I would only add that I think that the need for retaining the distinction has become even more pressing in recent years, in an increasingly competitive environment featuring (at least in the more common language pairs) an overabundance of wannabes and never-gonna-bes who are somehow able to secure work and (apparently) produce acceptable output – in part with the help of forums like Kudoz.

Within such an environment, it is simply an affront to see people crowdsource large swathes of their work through Kudoz.

As neilmac rightly points out, voting a question “non-Pro” is a way of sending a message that does not raise too many hackles.


[Edited at 2019-05-01 12:59 GMT]
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Michele Fauble
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Mirko Mainardi
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Agree with this May 1, 2019

Samuel Murray wrote:

And why is there only a "vote pro" or a "vote non-pro" button (instead of both)?


Actually, I always thought that it should either take more than 3 votes to change a question status, or users should be given the option to say whether they think a question status should remain what it is or be changed, as soon as the question is posted. Actually, both could coexist.

Fact is that if X people see the question, and 3 of them decide to reclassify it as either "pro" or "non-pro", that disregards the opinion of the X-3 people that saw the question (either before or after its status was changed).

So, in practice, by counting both "pro" and "non-pro" votes from the start, a question could be reclassified when the difference between the two counters reaches 3 (or 5) votes.


 
writeaway
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Please explain: to the detriment of the answers the questions attracted May 1, 2019

Mikhail Kropotov wrote:

Many of my questions have been wrongly reclassified by 'peer consensus' as non-Pro, against my will and to the detriment of the answers the questions attracted.

[Edited at 2019-04-30 18:49 GMT]


I don't understand what you are inferring. Are you suggesting that non-pro applies to askers and answerers and not just to the fact that a question is regarded as easy or everyday terminology? Do you think that non-pro questions are answered by non-pro translators?
Personally I find it detrimental to the site as a whole to have basic, everyday terms posted as "pro". Everyone should feel free to ask whatever question they wish, but there needs to be a realistic approach. The word "pro" needs to be used for 'tough terms' and not for everyday language.
Askers already 'own' questions: it's no longer allowed to post a warning that the answer chosen is wrong, it is no longer possible for moderators to alter erroneous glossary entries,etc. Imo, muzzling colleagues 100% would also be detrimental to the site as a whole.


Rachel Fell
Richard Purdom
B D Finch
 
writeaway
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Suggestion: be allowed to change or even remove one's vote May 1, 2019

I'd like to add that I feel it would be a good idea to allow people to change their minds once they have voted pro or non-pro. Sometimes a question looks easy and ends up being more complicated than it first appeared. And occasionally a question that appears tricky turns out to be dead simple.

[Edited at 2019-05-01 14:34 GMT]


Josephine Cassar
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philgoddard
 
Samuel Murray
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If asker is translator... May 1, 2019

writeaway wrote:
Personally I find it detrimental to the site as a whole to have basic, everyday terms posted as "pro". ... The word "pro" needs to be used for 'tough terms' and not for everyday language.


1. Remember, according to ProZ.com itself, "pro" is for "a question that is suitable for professional translators" (and if you click the question mark icon you'll see an explanation to the effect that "non-pro" is reserved for questions by mostly non-translators who are merely curious about something or do not ask the question because they want to use the answer in a translation job).

It may be that some people who click the "vote pro/non-pro" button do not bother with the ProZ.com definition of "pro" and "non-pro", but reason like you do, i.e. that "pro" is for "tough terms" only.

2. I believe that if the asker is a translator, and if his question relates to a language combination that he offers, and he still feels the need to ask, then: it means that the question is "pro", no matter how easy others may think the question is.

I would suggest that if an asker is registered and his question pertains to one of his own language combinations, then he should have the final say over whether the question is pro or non-pro, and any votes on the matter (if at all allowed) should be seen as mere suggestions.


Josephine Cassar
 
Jessica Noyes
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Kudoz points and pro non-pro May 1, 2019

I had always thought that if a question is voted "non-pro", kudoz points are not awarded to the the person who answers. In other words, the answerer deserves no reward, not even points, for coming up with an answer to such a simple question. Is that correct? If so, then I would vote to keep the distinction.

 
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KudoZ: Should vote pro/non-pro options be eliminated?






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