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Ethics: how do you deal with harmful or misleading materials?
Thread poster: Dan Dascalescu
Dan Dascalescu
Dan Dascalescu  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:07
Romanian to English
+ ...
Nov 8, 2012

For the past few days, I've seen several Kudoz questions about terms such as "bodyforce", "*optic reactions* between kidneys and the *optics*", and others that clearly suggest the asker was translating a pseudosciencentific quackery text.

As far as I'm concerned, I would refuse outright any contra
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For the past few days, I've seen several Kudoz questions about terms such as "bodyforce", "*optic reactions* between kidneys and the *optics*", and others that clearly suggest the asker was translating a pseudosciencentific quackery text.

As far as I'm concerned, I would refuse outright any contract involving the promotion of misinformation, let alone fraudulent and unproven medical practices, even if that meant I had to mop floors at Walmart.

How do others deal with this?

Even if you tolerate stories about poltergeist, UFOs, conspiracy theories or other hoaxes and irrational nonsense (this graphic is delightful), having in mind that particularly in the medical field, material that advocates unproven alternative medicine "therapies" often ends up hurting or killing people, shouldn't ProZ take a more active role in preventing these activities?

Only from documented accounts of pseudoscientific practices, it's clear that hundreds of thousands of people were killed or injured, and billions of dollars were lost. To quote http://whatstheharm.net :

368,379 people killed, 306,096 injured and over $2,815,931,000 in economic damages


While not ending up in censoring the site, I believe something should be done to strongly discourage translators for taking contracts involving these sorts of materials. Are there policies on this topic?
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OG Pete
OG Pete  Identity Verified
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
Live and Let Live Nov 8, 2012

Dan Dascalescu wrote:
....As far as I'm concerned, I would refuse outright any contract involving the promotion of misinformation,
....How do others deal with this?


13th Amendment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Dan Dascalescu wrote:

.... Are there policies on this topic?


1st Amendment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


 
Ricardy Ricot
Ricardy Ricot  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:07
French to English
+ ...
Ignore them? Nov 8, 2012

Ignore them? What if in some cases, the scientific community and you are actually wrong and the document is right? What if the document in question is part of a fictional book and you just didn't know it? If it is part of a work of fiction, it can say what it wants, it's not necessary promotion of misinformation. It's difficult to judge.

 
Dan Dascalescu
Dan Dascalescu  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:07
Romanian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Apalling Nov 8, 2012

I am appalled at the responses so far.

Live and let live? Perhaps you meant, live and let die? FYI, Steve Jobs died precisely because he insisted on an "alternative medicine" treatment instead of undergoing chemo.

As for the 1st amendment, the US has laws against child porn and even
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I am appalled at the responses so far.

Live and let live? Perhaps you meant, live and let die? FYI, Steve Jobs died precisely because he insisted on an "alternative medicine" treatment instead of undergoing chemo.

As for the 1st amendment, the US has laws against child porn and even against posting instructions on how to make a bomb:

if you post bomb-making instructions on your website along with encouragements for readers to use the bombs, you've likely broken the law. And, if convicted, you'd face a fine of up to $250,000, up to 20 years in prison, or both.


As you should know, far fewer people have been killed by artisanal bombs, than by bogus medical advice.

And, "what if I'm wrong"? Seriously? Have you even looked at http://whatstheharm.net/ ? Do you have a basic understanding of the scientific method and of the burden of proof concept? If your best defense is "maybe the material is part of a work of fiction", then your argument is dead in the water.

[Edited at 2012-11-08 02:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-11-08 02:32 GMT]
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Ricardy Ricot
Ricardy Ricot  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:07
French to English
+ ...
No need to be this negative Nov 8, 2012

Are you saying that you are so deeply versed in the sciences that you will always recognize whether the knowledge presented in the document is right or wrong? You will never make a mistake? Scientific knowledge is changing all the time. What if the paper in question is just in advance for its time? For example, in the past, doctors believed infants did not experience pain, now they do.

Also, are you saying it's impossible that someone wrote a bogus science paper just to insert it i
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Are you saying that you are so deeply versed in the sciences that you will always recognize whether the knowledge presented in the document is right or wrong? You will never make a mistake? Scientific knowledge is changing all the time. What if the paper in question is just in advance for its time? For example, in the past, doctors believed infants did not experience pain, now they do.

Also, are you saying it's impossible that someone wrote a bogus science paper just to insert it in a work of fiction? It's their right, isn't it?

You don't have to insult me. I did not do the same to you. I know the scientific method pretty well, but seriously I don't care whether people know I do or not.
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OG Pete
OG Pete  Identity Verified
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
UFOs Nov 8, 2012

Dan Dascalescu wrote:
UFOs, conspiracy theories or other hoaxes and irrational nonsense


I love translating about UFOs (I get a lot of UFO stuff in the Russian>English language pair). I wanted to add it to my specialties, but can't find the option. Support ticket?

[Edited at 2012-11-08 03:43 GMT]


 
Ricardy Ricot
Ricardy Ricot  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:07
French to English
+ ...
Hahaha Nov 8, 2012

That's very funny, Peter. It's Peter, right? I can't really read Russian

 
OG Pete
OG Pete  Identity Verified
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
Don't blow my cover Nov 8, 2012

Ricardy Ricot wrote:

That's very funny, Peter. It's Peter, right? I can't really read Russian




 
Dan Dascalescu
Dan Dascalescu  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:07
Romanian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Let's drop the "work of fiction" cop out Nov 8, 2012

Ricardy Ricot wrote:

Are you saying that you are so deeply versed in the sciences that you will always recognize whether the knowledge presented in the document is right or wrong? You will never make a mistake?


No, I'm not.

What I'm against is blatant quackery, for which there is no evidence whatsoever. The example in my first post is of that kind. "*optic reactions* between kidneys and the *optics*" - what in the world is that?

[Edited at 2012-11-12 22:22 GMT]


 
Ricardy Ricot
Ricardy Ricot  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:07
French to English
+ ...
Hahaha Nov 8, 2012

Hehe, Peter . @ Dan, I'm done. I do not want nor like to judge people. I understand your point of view and see why you are upset though.

 
The Misha
The Misha
Local time: 16:07
Russian to English
+ ...
Each and every one of us Nov 8, 2012

who feels the occasional urge to tell other people what to do, how to live their lives, what medical, spiritual, legal or other advice to follow, what gods to pray to or what not needs to take a step back and maybe get a life. In the city where I live, the current mayor, an otherwise outstanding, respectable and dedicated promoter of public good is now trying to tell people that they cannot smoke, drink soda or eat deep-fried foods. He may be right in a narrow medical sense, but he is still wron... See more
who feels the occasional urge to tell other people what to do, how to live their lives, what medical, spiritual, legal or other advice to follow, what gods to pray to or what not needs to take a step back and maybe get a life. In the city where I live, the current mayor, an otherwise outstanding, respectable and dedicated promoter of public good is now trying to tell people that they cannot smoke, drink soda or eat deep-fried foods. He may be right in a narrow medical sense, but he is still wrong. In the country of my birth, a certain cohort of very persistent individuals once tried to impose their vision of happiness on the rest of the populace and wound up causing the deaths of some 50 million - most of them with extreme prejudice. In the country of my choice and current residence, a certain, ahem, newly reelected public official is now telling us that we must buy a certain commercially available product - or else. He is wrong, and history will prove him to have been wrong all along.

Professionally, we translators are not unlike notaries public: they certify signatures as true without extending the certification to the subject matter involved. We make sure that words and meanings in one language match those in another. That's it. That's what they pay us for. Unless someone is shooting up widows and orphans around, let's stick to that.

Your responsibility is primarily to yourself and your loved ones. The more of us realize this simple truth and act accordingly, the better the chances that this world will not need any saving. Take a step back, man. And take a deep breath.
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Ricardy Ricot
Ricardy Ricot  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:07
French to English
+ ...
lol Misha Nov 8, 2012

lol Misha

 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Age-related? Nov 8, 2012

Dan Dascalescu wrote:
While not ending up in censoring the site, I believe something should be done to strongly discourage translators for taking contracts involving these sorts of materials. Are there policies on this topic?

Driving motor vehicles, owning weapons, extreme sports, dangerous animals as pets, or plastic surgery are all practices that have seriously injured and killed many thousands of people. Why don't you recommend not to translate about these things as well?

Whilst twenty years ago I would have probably agreed with you completely, as time goes by I am more convinced that I know very little of the life, dreams, hopes, and knowledge of six thousand million people, so I try to lead my life and profession in a way that is honest, honorable, and in line with my personal values, human rights, and the general rules of my faith.

The above of course includes not translating about things I consider to be against my view of a brighter future for mankind, but I would not dare to recommend anyone not to translate about this or that. Each person is entitled to their own views about what is moral or inmoral, right or wrong, good or bad for mankind in the long term. This is how people are made, and it is how it should be.


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
An important missing topic Nov 8, 2012

Dan Dascalescu wrote:
Only from documented accounts of pseudoscientific practices, it's clear that hundreds of thousands of people were killed or injured, and billions of dollars were lost. To quote http://whatstheharm.net :

Zombies! Not included. Extreme belief in the actual existence of zombies can kill you for sure.


 
Shai Navé
Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 22:07
English to Hebrew
+ ...
It's simple actually Nov 8, 2012

I don't take any job that I don't feel comfortable translating from an ethical standpoint.
If the content seems to me as fraudulent in nature, I don't like or disagree with the message, or I consider it be a complete nonsense with potentially harmful consequences (for example, encouraging gambling and other games or chance), I just don't take it and by that do my small part in not encouraging and supporting the message. Of course, someone else is quick to take and translate it, so by doing
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I don't take any job that I don't feel comfortable translating from an ethical standpoint.
If the content seems to me as fraudulent in nature, I don't like or disagree with the message, or I consider it be a complete nonsense with potentially harmful consequences (for example, encouraging gambling and other games or chance), I just don't take it and by that do my small part in not encouraging and supporting the message. Of course, someone else is quick to take and translate it, so by doing so I don't actually prevent it from spreading around, but at least my professional conscience is clear.

On the other hand, I try not to judge others. We all have our different believes and perspectives on things and life, and although I may consider something to be completely nonsense, others may think otherwise. If I think that something has the potential of being fraudulent or harmful I just don't take the work (nor participate in such Kudoz questions or any other discussion that promotes it) but others who think otherwise do, and I think that this is Okay. If they believe in it, that's fine.

What I personally find less acceptable and even worrying to a certain degree, are those who actually think (and sometimes even know) that the content is fraudulent and/or harmful, but still take the work.

[Edited at 2012-11-08 08:22 GMT]
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Ethics: how do you deal with harmful or misleading materials?







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