| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: What's the maximum payment deadline you would accept? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "What's the maximum payment deadline you would accept?".
This poll was originally submitted by Gary Smith. View the poll results »
| | | | | Nobody > 90 days? | May 9, 2011 |
So far (126 votes) nobody has said they would accept >90 days for payment (yet undoubtedly this sometimes happens). I myself have stopped working with consistent late payers. What do you think when an agency says "the end client hasn't paid us yet"?
| | | | Karen Stokes 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:01
Member (2003)
French to English
Gary Smith wrote:
What do you think when an agency says "the end client hasn't paid us yet"?
Firstly, it's irrelevant: the agency's contract with their client is separate from my contract with the agency. Secondly, they need to manage their cash flow better.
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 07:01
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Two different contracts | May 9, 2011 |
Karen Stokes wrote: Gary Smith wrote:
What do you think when an agency says "the end client hasn't paid us yet"? Firstly, it's irrelevant: the agency's contract with their client is separate from my contract with the agency. Secondly, they need to manage their cash flow better.
I agree with Karen 100%.
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| This depends on other factors of project details | May 9, 2011 |
While I agree with Karen and the others, above, my reply to the forum query was 'Other'. I have contracted work where final payment took a year, because the project lasted that long; even initial payment from known and reliable (usually direct) clients could be delayed over 90 days, for sound reasons deriving from the nature and details of the work. Still, especially for outsourcing referral agencies, 30 days should be plenty of time for them to pay. For small jobs, 15 days after receipt of my i... See more While I agree with Karen and the others, above, my reply to the forum query was 'Other'. I have contracted work where final payment took a year, because the project lasted that long; even initial payment from known and reliable (usually direct) clients could be delayed over 90 days, for sound reasons deriving from the nature and details of the work. Still, especially for outsourcing referral agencies, 30 days should be plenty of time for them to pay. For small jobs, 15 days after receipt of my invoice is a reasonable expectation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rolf Kern
Switzerland
Local time: 07:01
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
I said "other", because I accept any terms of payment, if they are really kept. The problem is, that most of the agencies (except the Swiss) do not keep their stated terms of payment, and my direct clients keep them within the range of - 10 days + 30 days.
| | | | | Translators' bank: interest-free loans | May 9, 2011 |
Of all possible professions, translators seem to have been chosen as the universal source of interest-free loans.
There is the trite issue of countless translators moaning about the low rates being offered to translators everywhere. Why does it exist? Because there are many - not just a few - translators who accept them... which does not prevent them from moaning about it.
The same happens to long payment terms. Translation agencies, mostly in Iberia and Italia (I feel ... See more Of all possible professions, translators seem to have been chosen as the universal source of interest-free loans.
There is the trite issue of countless translators moaning about the low rates being offered to translators everywhere. Why does it exist? Because there are many - not just a few - translators who accept them... which does not prevent them from moaning about it.
The same happens to long payment terms. Translation agencies, mostly in Iberia and Italia (I feel pretty sure that the letter combination resemblance must have something to do with it), are known to pay 60, 90, or more days after delivery. They all blame their end clients, yet in a normal marketplace the seller is the one who sets payment terms: go out and check any store in your neighborhood, wherever it is.
All right, a translator needs time to do any job. That's operational time. Agencies and end-clients also need time to check what they have received; operational time as well. IMO two weeks should be far more than enough. Beyond that, it will be an interest-free loan. Apparently too many translators worldwide fail to realize this; they think it's some sacred law carved in stone since the Babel tower collapsed. They are unaware that no bank or financial institution offers translation services as well; it's a completely different line of business.
Some translation agencies consider their translators as valuable business partners, so their payment is quick. Other agencies operate on the accrued receivables from all jobs outsourced a few months ago, and don't care much about their vendors being paid shortly after delivery; they consider it a strong marketing edge being able to offer their clients an overly extended payment term. And there are some - usually short-lived ones - that collect in advance or COD from their clients, and yet pay their translators far away in the future, living on the positive cash flow in this meantime.
And why does this low rates and long payment terms situation exist? Because a considerable mass of low self-esteem translators accepts them. Too many translators say, "Thank you, thank you, thank you!" upon being assigned a complex job with an almost impossible deadline, at despicably low rates, and under abusively long payment terms. Is that professional? No! But an agency standing in-between will suffice to conceal to the end-client's eyes that the job is being performed by a desperate amateur, singing for their supper, so to speak.
If long-payment-term-seeking clients can't find any competent professional in the marketplace to do the work, this situation will tend to change. ▲ Collapse
| | | | DianeGM
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I answered 31 - 60 the question this way as I though it was about terms agreed in advance. Now I am not sure if that is a correct assumption reading the discussion and I also realised I made a mistake ....
To clarify, most of my clients pay within 30 days, a few pay in 60 days and one pays 60 days after the end of the month the invoice was received.
In the last case that could theoretically be up to 90 days, so actually my answer is wrong as in one case I've de facto accepted a term... See more I answered 31 - 60 the question this way as I though it was about terms agreed in advance. Now I am not sure if that is a correct assumption reading the discussion and I also realised I made a mistake ....
To clarify, most of my clients pay within 30 days, a few pay in 60 days and one pays 60 days after the end of the month the invoice was received.
In the last case that could theoretically be up to 90 days, so actually my answer is wrong as in one case I've de facto accepted a term of up to 90 days.
(Is there a way to cancel your poll answers and reanswer?)
In practice, I have been paid later than 90 days after completing a project, but that is a case of late payment, whatever the reason/story/line/excuse given on the due date and obviously not something I agreed to in advance.
I'd be unlikely to agree with a payment term of more than 90 days up front, as a fixed term, on a regular basis. ▲ Collapse
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maryblack
United States
Local time: 00:01
Member (2013)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Agree, although... | May 9, 2011 |
Rolf Kern wrote:
I said "other", because I accept any terms of payment, if they are really kept.
That's what I say, especially when dealing with government clients which are slower to pay. Right now, however, I'm still awaiting quite a hefty payment from a government (Generalitat) agency for a job done in January. Apparently they were changed from one department to another within the government, and all payments were stopped. Woulda been nice if they'd let ME know that before accepting a job that took up most of the month...
| | | | Mark Hamlen
France
Local time: 07:01
French to English
+ ...
| Poor payers should be blacklisted | May 9, 2011 |
I'm fairly incensed over this topic lately. Especially with the French agencies who consistently choose to pay at 60 days, but they push this to "60 days, end of month". This means that if you invoice them for a job on 2 March you won't get paid until 60 days from 31 March.
These agencies are immediately off my list of clients.
There is no excuse for this except that this is allowed under French law and because other translators will agree to these insulting terms. ... See more I'm fairly incensed over this topic lately. Especially with the French agencies who consistently choose to pay at 60 days, but they push this to "60 days, end of month". This means that if you invoice them for a job on 2 March you won't get paid until 60 days from 31 March.
These agencies are immediately off my list of clients.
There is no excuse for this except that this is allowed under French law and because other translators will agree to these insulting terms. We work always to rush for them, we should not then be subject to the client's leisure for payment. (I wonder if this is a holdover from the French aristocracy, where it was an HONOUR to supply the court, and good luck getting paid!)
As for "our client hasn't paid us, so we can't pay you." Try saying this to your banker when the mortgage is due, or the landlord when the rent is due. This is an outrageous statement and once again, an agency who says this will be removed from my client list. ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 07:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
Usually most of my clients pay within 90 days. However, as I found when doing TEFL courses under the auspices of the regional authorities, sometimes officialdom takes longer (as the saying goes in Spain "las cosas del palacio... van despacio"). In the case of the TEFL courses, most of the teachers were prepared to wait, sometimes for over a year, because we were getting paid considerably more than academy/agency rates, so in the long run it was worth it when they did eventually stump up.
H... See more Usually most of my clients pay within 90 days. However, as I found when doing TEFL courses under the auspices of the regional authorities, sometimes officialdom takes longer (as the saying goes in Spain "las cosas del palacio... van despacio"). In the case of the TEFL courses, most of the teachers were prepared to wait, sometimes for over a year, because we were getting paid considerably more than academy/agency rates, so in the long run it was worth it when they did eventually stump up.
However, I do think 90 days should be the limit for clients in the private sector, whenever possible. ▲ Collapse
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60 is the maximum. I realize that french agencies usually do 60 day cycles, but I don't have that many french clients. Anything more than that is off the chain...it's like working on spec! There are a couple of agencies who have 40 days...one of them is really good to work for and pays a great rate so I never minded.
Most pay upon receipt of the invoice or within 30 days.
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Benoit HUPIN (X)
France
Local time: 07:01
English to French
+ ...
| I am not a bank | May 9, 2011 |
Hello,
Two things :
- My standard payment term is 30 days net, which I consider a quite fair compromise. Anything longer than that is reflected on my rates, i.e. I first inquire about the payment terms and then I set up my rate (the longer the payment term, the higher the rate). I am not a bank and I am not willing to lend money without interests. Moreover, social contributions have to be paid on receipt of invoice.
- As translators, we are bound to deliver... See more Hello,
Two things :
- My standard payment term is 30 days net, which I consider a quite fair compromise. Anything longer than that is reflected on my rates, i.e. I first inquire about the payment terms and then I set up my rate (the longer the payment term, the higher the rate). I am not a bank and I am not willing to lend money without interests. Moreover, social contributions have to be paid on receipt of invoice.
- As translators, we are bound to deliver right on time if we want to be paid fully. Thus, I consider I am in my right when I ask for a payment right on time. Not one week later than the due date, but ON the due date. With 30 days, the customer has sufficient time to set up payment and ensure the wire transfer leaves its bank account two or three days before the due date. It is a question of respect.
Benoit ▲ Collapse
| | | | vixen
Greece
Local time: 08:01
English to Dutch
+ ...
My standard payment terms are 30 days after date of invoice. I have one client who pays after 45 days, which is sth. I accepted because the jobs they offered were interesting and regular. I had one direct client who paid after 60 days and only after a reminder. I offered this particular client a discount (my regular rate) if he paid within 30 days or the "normal" rate (a higher rate) if he insisted on paying after 60 days. He preferred the latter.
As someone else already stated, we're not... See more My standard payment terms are 30 days after date of invoice. I have one client who pays after 45 days, which is sth. I accepted because the jobs they offered were interesting and regular. I had one direct client who paid after 60 days and only after a reminder. I offered this particular client a discount (my regular rate) if he paid within 30 days or the "normal" rate (a higher rate) if he insisted on paying after 60 days. He preferred the latter.
As someone else already stated, we're not banks.
Some years ago, I was working as a tech writer for a particular outsourcer who did not pay after the agreed 30 days, saying the end client only paid after 60 days. Fortunately my client immediately saw my point when I explained to him that I had a contract with him and not with the end client. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 07:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Accept vs. put up with | May 9, 2011 |
The maximum I'd accept would be 30 days.
The maximum I've had to put up with has been up to +6 months. These late payers are, as NeilMac mentions, generally government agencies and public groups depending on grants from them. Anyone accepting these jobs should know that, that's the way it is and no amount of moaning or banging one's head against the wall is going to chan... See more The maximum I'd accept would be 30 days.
The maximum I've had to put up with has been up to +6 months. These late payers are, as NeilMac mentions, generally government agencies and public groups depending on grants from them. Anyone accepting these jobs should know that, that's the way it is and no amount of moaning or banging one's head against the wall is going to change it.
On the other hand, I wouldn't dream of putting up with conditions like that from a private company. ▲ Collapse
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