Paying VAT to a translator in France when I am the client Thread poster: Wendy Cummings
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Wendy Cummings 
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:52
Spanish to English
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I've searched the forums but I can't find any answers, so:
I am a UK resident Sole Trader, not registered for VAT as I don't quite pass the threshold.
Recently I had to outsource a piece of work to a translator in France. I have received her invoice. The invoice is in sterling (as agreed), for payment to a UK account. She has charged VAT, at the rate of 19.6%.
Firstly I was suprised that she has charged VAT, as I have never had this happen before on the few... See more I've searched the forums but I can't find any answers, so:
I am a UK resident Sole Trader, not registered for VAT as I don't quite pass the threshold.
Recently I had to outsource a piece of work to a translator in France. I have received her invoice. The invoice is in sterling (as agreed), for payment to a UK account. She has charged VAT, at the rate of 19.6%.
Firstly I was suprised that she has charged VAT, as I have never had this happen before on the few occasions I outsource. If this is correct, then secondly I'm not sure whether the French rate is the correct one to apply.
Can anyone please explain the correct method to apply in this situation?
Thanks. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Martine Soulet (X)
France
Local time: 05:52
English to French
+ ...
| beginning of an answer | Mar 16, 2010 |
Hello,
The VAT rules having changed as from January 2010 in France, I think it normal that the translator charged VAT on his/her invoice, as you don't have a VAT number. The new rule says that we must charge VAT to any customer inside EU when he/she is considered as a particular who is not submitted to VAT in his/her country. Concerning the rate, I would say the rate to apply is the one in force in the country of origin of the supplier (in that case, France). I suppose that, if I bu... See more Hello,
The VAT rules having changed as from January 2010 in France, I think it normal that the translator charged VAT on his/her invoice, as you don't have a VAT number. The new rule says that we must charge VAT to any customer inside EU when he/she is considered as a particular who is not submitted to VAT in his/her country. Concerning the rate, I would say the rate to apply is the one in force in the country of origin of the supplier (in that case, France). I suppose that, if I buy something in the UK without giving my VAT number, UK VAT rate will apply and be charged.
Best
Martine ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rebekka Groß (X)
Local time: 04:52
English to German
| more information | Mar 16, 2010 |
Martine Soulet wrote:
Hello,
The VAT rules having changed as from January 2010 in France, I think it normal that the translator charged VAT on his/her invoice, as you don't have a VAT number. The new rule says that we must charge VAT to any customer inside EU when he/she is considered as a particular who is not submitted to VAT in his/her country. Concerning the rate, I would say the rate to apply is the one in force in the country of origin of the supplier (in that case, France). I suppose that, if I buy something in the UK without giving my VAT number, UK VAT rate will apply and be charged.
Best
Martine
I agree with Martine.
You may find more info on the HMRC website. The following link should get you started.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/index.htm
It's rather technical and not that easy to understand. An alternative is to phone the VAT help line and speak to a person. They're usually very helpful.
As an aside: It may be an idea to register for VAT even if you don't reach the threshold as it means you get VAT on purchases for the office back. It also forces me to do my quaterly VAT returns so everything is in order at the end of the tax year when I send my books to the accountant.
[Edited at 2010-03-16 17:24 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 04:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| There ARE VAT problems out there | Mar 16, 2010 |
Hello Wendy,
I don't think you should have received a bill with VAT at any rate, although 19.6% is the correct rate in France. However, (and it's a big however) I'm sure you've heard that the VAT rules changed on 1st Jan. Probably, the translator in France didn't understand the new rules any more than anyone else.
I imagine you don't have a VAT registration number yourself? If you don't, I don't imagine your invoice conforms to the new rules, as we're all supposed to ha... See more Hello Wendy,
I don't think you should have received a bill with VAT at any rate, although 19.6% is the correct rate in France. However, (and it's a big however) I'm sure you've heard that the VAT rules changed on 1st Jan. Probably, the translator in France didn't understand the new rules any more than anyone else.
I imagine you don't have a VAT registration number yourself? If you don't, I don't imagine your invoice conforms to the new rules, as we're all supposed to have a VAT number now and to quote it on invoices going to an EU member other than the one we are based in. This rule applies to everyone, even if they are not actually registered for VAT in terms of adding it to bills, recuperating it etc.
You need to spend a quiet evening or two reading the posts on this:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/153466-eu_vat_changes_as_of_1_jan_2010.html
is the main English one.
http://www.proz.com/forum/french/153922-les_règles_de_la_tva_changent_en_2010.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/french/160342-tva_et_achat_des_services_intracommunautaire_assujettis_redevables.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/french/160087-tva_et_achat_des_services_intracommunautaire_autoentrepreneurs.html
are in French
It's a big problem for the English as HMRC doesn't seem to understand the necessity of allocating a VAT number to independents who are not registered for VAT.
Good luck and let us all know if you find a way round it.
Edited to add: I see someone has already confirmed that this is now correct practice for a VAT-registered supplier in France - not bing registered for VAT myself I didn't know that. I just have a VAT number that I got from our tax people so I can legally issue invoices to you and others around Europe.
[Edited at 2010-03-16 17:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:52
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
That clarifies the situation nicely, thank you.
As regarding whether to register anyway, I did debate it but decided that my office purchases amount to so little (despite every attempt to raise them!) it would just mean more paperwork for very little gain. And I am fairly OCD-like when it comes to my books anyway, so end-of-year never poses a problem for me!
| | | | Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
My post crossed with yours so didn't read it in time.
I will contact my accountant re: VAT numbers and see what she advises, although I am partly inclined to keep going as I always have until someone pulls me up on it... Until now, whenever a client has asked for a VAT number i've just given them my NI number and that has been enough for them (although they probably don't realise the difference!)
I got halfway through the posts on the new VAT 2010 rules, but admittedly ... See more My post crossed with yours so didn't read it in time.
I will contact my accountant re: VAT numbers and see what she advises, although I am partly inclined to keep going as I always have until someone pulls me up on it... Until now, whenever a client has asked for a VAT number i've just given them my NI number and that has been enough for them (although they probably don't realise the difference!)
I got halfway through the posts on the new VAT 2010 rules, but admittedly I didn't really take much of it in, not being registered. There goes my evening in front of the telly...! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rad Graban (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:52
English to Slovak
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| Not much to say with regards to you original post, but.... | Mar 16, 2010 |
yes, the things changed in most EU countries on 1st January 2010 and I can now see fair bit of companies/agencies based in the UK offering services to UK based clients ONLY. I've started to do the same.
| | | | inmb
Local time: 05:52
English to Polish
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| yes, I would charge VAT | Mar 16, 2010 |
Hello
It seems that a lot of things changed on 1/01/2010 regarding intra-Community VAT. My accountant, who is rather strict, informed me that when my EU-clients have validated EU VAT number (not to be confused with local identification numbers), to be checked here:
http://www.vatcheck.com/
the place of supply is the state they are located and therefore I do not charge VAT on such invoice... See more Hello
It seems that a lot of things changed on 1/01/2010 regarding intra-Community VAT. My accountant, who is rather strict, informed me that when my EU-clients have validated EU VAT number (not to be confused with local identification numbers), to be checked here:
http://www.vatcheck.com/
the place of supply is the state they are located and therefore I do not charge VAT on such invoices.
In the event there is no EU VAT number, or number is displayed as not valid, I have to charge local VAT rate, as I would normally do with local clients.
[Edited at 2010-03-16 18:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 05:52
English to Danish
| In Denmark for years | Mar 16, 2010 |
This rule has applied to any Danish translator for years:
* Any private person (= person or entity without a VAT number) must be charged VAT within EU.
* Any VAT registered person/entity within EU should receive an invoice excempt of VAT.
And yes, the VAT rate of the original place of business (supplier's place of business) should be applied.
@ Wendy - Personally, I get back VAT on computers, printers, software as well as ordinary office suppli... See more This rule has applied to any Danish translator for years:
* Any private person (= person or entity without a VAT number) must be charged VAT within EU.
* Any VAT registered person/entity within EU should receive an invoice excempt of VAT.
And yes, the VAT rate of the original place of business (supplier's place of business) should be applied.
@ Wendy - Personally, I get back VAT on computers, printers, software as well as ordinary office supplies, such as copy paper, staples, etc., and this is not always peanuts, but perhaps this is not possible in the UK? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 05:52
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Same in the Netherlands | Mar 16, 2010 |
Any private persons in the EU (without VAT number ) should be charged VAT (19%)
Any companies within the Netherlands (with VAT) should also be charged VAT
Any companies outside of the Netherlands but within the EU should be charged VAT (19%)
Now there are some other rules on VAT for stuff like literairy work (6% or 0%?)
but that's basically it....
... and is has been so for many many years...
Ed Vreeburg
Translate.ED
| | | | Channa Montijn
Netherlands
Local time: 05:52
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Not correct? | Mar 17, 2010 |
Edward Vreeburg wrote:
Any private persons in the EU (without VAT number ) should be charged VAT (19%)
Any companies within the Netherlands (with VAT) should also be charged VAT
Any companies outside of the Netherlands but within the EU should be charged VAT (19%)
Now there are some other rules on VAT for stuff like literairy work (6% or 0%?)
but that's basically it....
... and is has been so for many many years...
Ed Vreeburg
Translate.ED
Dear Edward
I do not think that: "Any companies outside of the Netherlands but within the EU should be charged VAT (19%)" is correct... see:
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/zakelijk/eubtw2010/diensten/diensten-01.html#P15_731
Just thought I would mention it... VAT is hard enough to understand;)
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PCovs wrote:
This rule has applied to any Danish translator for years:
* Any private person (= person or entity without a VAT number) must be charged VAT within EU.
* Any VAT registered person/entity within EU should receive an invoice excempt of VAT.
These are the guidelines my accountant told me to respect too, and I have been for about five years. Not sure much has changed for those based in France?
K
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