Count KudoZ answer time from start of answer, not from submit Thread poster: Samuel Murray
|
|---|
Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 19:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
G'day everyone
I just answered a KudoZ question. I was the first one there. I checked my dictionaries and when I was certain of the answer, I clicked the answer button and started typing my answer as well as a neat explanation. When I clicked submit, I found that another person had already answered. Their explanation consists of a smiley. Obviously if they and I had started answering roughly at the same time, their answer would appear sooner and the time stamp at their answer w... See more G'day everyone
I just answered a KudoZ question. I was the first one there. I checked my dictionaries and when I was certain of the answer, I clicked the answer button and started typing my answer as well as a neat explanation. When I clicked submit, I found that another person had already answered. Their explanation consists of a smiley. Obviously if they and I had started answering roughly at the same time, their answer would appear sooner and the time stamp at their answer would show that they were "first". But they weren't really first -- they just used a technique that cost them less time before clicking the submit button.
I get the impression that the time indicated on the KudoZ page relates to the time when an answer is submitted, not to the time when an answerer started answering the question.
Wouldn't it make more sense to indicate the time from the moment that an answerer started answering, and not from the time when he finished writing his answer?
Your comments? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Smiles are nice, but do not constitute an explanation | Jun 26, 2009 |
Smiles are nice, but do not constitute an explanation.
| | | | | Does speed really count? | Jun 26, 2009 |
A couple of weeks ago, there was a similar question on the forum whether seconds, in addition to minutes, should be noted in the KudoZ answer time. Many colleagues agreed that speed was much less important than a well documented answer, and points should be awarded accordingly. In your example, I am sure your well thought-out explanation will be more appreciated than just a smiley...
Cheers,
Michiel
| | | | | Another possible solution | Jun 26, 2009 |
Implement a "cool down time" period, for example 25 minutes, maybe more. During that time, answerers can submit their answers, but these are not displayed on the page (no accusations of "stealing answers") or forwarded to the asker. After that time, the answers are revealed, in random order for each visitor and with the time stamp: "submitted during cool down time"). Because all have the same time stamp, the asker/peers will naturally choose the most helpful/complete answer, rather than the fast... See more Implement a "cool down time" period, for example 25 minutes, maybe more. During that time, answerers can submit their answers, but these are not displayed on the page (no accusations of "stealing answers") or forwarded to the asker. After that time, the answers are revealed, in random order for each visitor and with the time stamp: "submitted during cool down time"). Because all have the same time stamp, the asker/peers will naturally choose the most helpful/complete answer, rather than the faster. Answerers will know that, and will hopefully document better their answers. After that, normal time stamps will be used for new answers (in order to avoid leeching).
Doing this, I think we can turn a speed competition into one about quality/completeness. I think that would improve the system (and maybe channel Kudoz points to better translators). Otherwise, the day will come that answers will be done using SMS jargon (and without a single smiley) .
Narcis ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Regarding the cool-down period | Jun 26, 2009 |
Narcis Lozano Drago wrote:
Implement a "cool down time" period, for example 25 minutes, maybe more. During that time, answerers can submit their answers, but these are not displayed on the page (no accusations of "stealing answers") or forwarded to the asker.
This sounds like a nice idea, although I would still like the answers to be forwarded to the asker as soon as is fair to do so. Part of the value of KudoZ for askers is the fact that answers come quickly. I also wonder if it wouldn't be better if a short version of the answers (i.e. only the term, nothing else) be displayed even during the cool-down period, to prevent people wasting their time writing duplicate answers. I guess any such system would have pros and cons... but it's a nice idea.
| | | | | Further options | Jun 26, 2009 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
This sounds like a nice idea, although I would still like the answers to be forwarded to the asker as soon as is fair to do so. Part of the value of KudoZ for askers is the fact that answers come quickly. I also wonder if it wouldn't be better if a short version of the answers (i.e. only the term, nothing else) be displayed even during the cool-down period, to prevent people wasting their time writing duplicate answers. I guess any such system would have pros and cons... but it's a nice idea.
First of all, if there are LOTS of replicated answers, that could actually mean that the question is so easy that can be automatically be turned into a Non-Pro or a Not-for points question:).
Second, in this system I am talking about the answerer will write the answer and the system will compare it with the answers already submitted. If the same answer (or a 90 "fuzzy match":)) has already been submitted, then a message will be shown to (and only to) the answerer:
"An answer very similar to yours has already been submitted. At this point you can choose not to submit it or try to make yours the most complete/well documented, (therefore most useful). All the answers submitted during the cool down period will be processed as if they had been submitted at the same time."
Third, I dare to say that all replicated answers submitted after this message will include at least some useful reference that will be useful for Kudoz glossaries users later.
Narcis
| | | | | Leave it up to the asker | Jun 26, 2009 |
Is it really worthwhile to create such an elaborate system in order to avoid duplicate (replicated) answers?
I think it's up to the asker to decide which answer is the most helpful. And if a certain answer is more helpful (i.e. better documented, better example sentences, better references) than a previously posted one, it should be rewarded, even if it is "replicated".
That should teach the "speed freaks" to put more effort into their answers...
[Bijgewerkt op 2009-06-26 16... See more Is it really worthwhile to create such an elaborate system in order to avoid duplicate (replicated) answers?
I think it's up to the asker to decide which answer is the most helpful. And if a certain answer is more helpful (i.e. better documented, better example sentences, better references) than a previously posted one, it should be rewarded, even if it is "replicated".
That should teach the "speed freaks" to put more effort into their answers...
[Bijgewerkt op 2009-06-26 16:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 19:51
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Theory and practice... | Jun 26, 2009 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
I get the impression that the time indicated on the KudoZ page relates to the time when an answer is submitted, not to the time when an answerer started answering the question.
Wouldn't it make more sense to indicate the time from the moment that an answerer started answering, and not from the time when he finished writing his answer?
In theory this sounds reasonable, but in practice... It's not hard to imagine, how it could go wrong:
The compulsive KudoZ grabbers would open every question the second it appears, no matter whether they have any idea about the correct answer, or not. Only then they would go googling for something resembling a half-decent answer... If they do not find anything, they simply drop the question.
Meanwhile, a person more familiar with the field might give a perfectly good answer and substantiate it with appropriate sources. However, if it is the same or similar answer that will be (eventually) given by the KudoZ grabber (remember, now the grabbers can take their time finding the answer, even if they don't know it initially), the specialist has no chance, as he did not have his finger on the trigger at the very second...
I am sorry, but in my opinion this would make KudoZ even more absurd than they are!
I know that further measures can be taken to alleviate this - e.g. every opened answer "counts", no matter whether the answerer gives the answer in the end, or not, there might be a time limit for the answer, etc. Still, it would make the process much more complicated without helping much...
[Edited at 2009-06-26 18:11 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 19:51
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| Chronological order is not the real problem | Jun 26, 2009 |
Hi Samuel,
I don't think the real problem is with how the chronological order is established. The heart of the problem is that the chronological order has such a great influence on which answer is selected as most helpful. And in my experience, this is in great part due to peer comments: it has become a very common practice to agree with the chronologically first of two identical answers -- even if it contains no explanation – or a much detailed one than the second. As if the titl... See more Hi Samuel,
I don't think the real problem is with how the chronological order is established. The heart of the problem is that the chronological order has such a great influence on which answer is selected as most helpful. And in my experience, this is in great part due to peer comments: it has become a very common practice to agree with the chronologically first of two identical answers -- even if it contains no explanation – or a much detailed one than the second. As if the title alone mattered and the explanation were just a justification of the proposed equivalent term.
This is clearly bad practice. Peers should ask themselves the questions: Would I agree with the same answer if the chronological order of the answers were different? Am I sure that I am not jumping on the band wagon – IOW, that I would agree with the same answer if the peer comments were different? If the answer to either question is "No", then the peer comment is not unbiased.
Likewise, answerers are too often biased by the peer comments (as well as the chronological order). So, they should ask themselves the question: Would I choose the same answer as most helpful if the peer agrees were different? (Of course, valuable remarks in the peer comments that concern the contents of an answer, need to be taken into account.) Am I sure that I would choose the same answer if the chronological order were different? Again, if either answer is "No", then some extra thought should be given to the choice.
So, instead of trying to solve the chronological order problem with a technical solution (that would have Jabberwock's loophole anyway), I would start with trying to change the peer agreement trend. Agreeing with a second answer and adding a comment like "Detailed and helpful explanation" might influence the asker in his/her choice.
Kind regards,
Attila
[Edited at 2009-06-26 20:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Agree to Michiel | Jun 27, 2009 |
Hello Samuel,
I understand your point.
When I see or get a KudoZ notification, click the link and try to submit an answer, and there's already a suggested answer which is almost exactly what I was going to suggest, I get disappointed, and it discourages me from submitting my answer. But instead I enter an agree to that person telling him/her that the suggestion was exactly what I was going to enter. And I move on.
Anyway, I totally agree to what Michiel po... See more Hello Samuel,
I understand your point.
When I see or get a KudoZ notification, click the link and try to submit an answer, and there's already a suggested answer which is almost exactly what I was going to suggest, I get disappointed, and it discourages me from submitting my answer. But instead I enter an agree to that person telling him/her that the suggestion was exactly what I was going to enter. And I move on.
Anyway, I totally agree to what Michiel posted regarding "does speed really count?". It's not the matter of speed; many times, there are "hints" given by the first answerer, especially when that answer is not perfect. And many times, the asker does not necessarily choose the first answerer, excluding cases where you are the only answerer with a perfect explanation or a link to back up your answer. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paula Sepúlveda (X)
Spain
Local time: 19:51
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Asker decides | Jun 27, 2009 |
I have been in the same situation; preparing an answer, looking for good links to back it up, etc, and then seeing those lopsided smileys, or one word messages, or even just a period, and I agree it is pretty discouraging. However, I think the asker can usually be trusted to evaluate which answer is the most helpful regardless of how fast it was submitted. As a rule I don't even bother agreeing with answers with the aforementioned "explanations" even if they look correct, because I think it's un... See more I have been in the same situation; preparing an answer, looking for good links to back it up, etc, and then seeing those lopsided smileys, or one word messages, or even just a period, and I agree it is pretty discouraging. However, I think the asker can usually be trusted to evaluate which answer is the most helpful regardless of how fast it was submitted. As a rule I don't even bother agreeing with answers with the aforementioned "explanations" even if they look correct, because I think it's unfair to those who do go through the trouble of supporting their answers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Pia Kurro
Estonia
Local time: 20:51
English to Estonian
+ ...
| Answer befits the one who asks... | Jul 5, 2009 |
I do not know about how important the time factor is in the final selection, but surely the IQ of the person who asked, is important. I have recently become to follow proz.com more closely and I am shocked how many translators there are who are native speakers of the target language, while often residents in the country of the source language (=nearly bilingual, then), who do not seem to have a grasp neither of the source language, nor of the subject they are translating in. But they are "trans... See more I do not know about how important the time factor is in the final selection, but surely the IQ of the person who asked, is important. I have recently become to follow proz.com more closely and I am shocked how many translators there are who are native speakers of the target language, while often residents in the country of the source language (=nearly bilingual, then), who do not seem to have a grasp neither of the source language, nor of the subject they are translating in. But they are "translators", and some with quite several years of "experience", and even MAs. They do not seem to research either-they simply ask and then choose the answer that best fits their (I am sorry) IQ, but is not necessarily correct at all.
Yet they have the authority to grant Kudoz points... to whoever submitted the wrong answer but which they liked. :? ▲ Collapse
| | | | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Count KudoZ answer time from start of answer, not from submit | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
