The grammar of Russiagate: Russians or "the" Russians?
Thread poster: Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:39
Russian to English
+ ...
Mar 4, 2018

This should be of interest to Russophiles, grammarians, and other human beings:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/03/02/the-grammar-of-russiagate/

"There’s a big difference between Russians and the Russians, even if the grammar seems inconsequential...."


 
Mikhail Kropotov
Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:39
English to Russian
+ ...
Thanks for sharing Mar 4, 2018

The article makes some good points. The author appears to be very meticulous with language, down to the last comma, which makes me trust him on issues of grammar. One sentence doesn't read well to me though:
If so, they haven’t said informed us of that fact.
Is it just me, or should said be dropped?


 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:39
Member
English to Italian
CDA Mar 4, 2018

Susan Welsh wrote:

This should be of interest to Russophiles, grammarians, and other human beings:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/03/02/the-grammar-of-russiagate/

"There’s a big difference between Russians and the Russians, even if the grammar seems inconsequential...."


For me, a non native speaker of English, what the article says seems almost obvious. E.g. "Consider what I call the insidious article, the. In the public prints and official pronouncements, it’s not enough to say Russians tried to muck around in the American election. It’s almost always the Russians. This is a subtle way to convey the idea that Vladimir Putin and his intel agencies were responsible."
Thing is, more often than not we just process this kind of input (especially spoken language) without noticing those "little details", that however affect our understanding and perception to some degree.

Actually, there's an entire discipline that focuses on this kind on language analyses: Critical Discourse Analysis. For instance: http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/journals/cadaad/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Volume-5_Van-Leeuwen.pdf#page=4


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 10:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
Not just you Mar 4, 2018

Mikhail Kropotov wrote:

The article makes some good points. The author appears to be very meticulous with language, down to the last comma, which makes me trust him on issues of grammar. One sentence doesn't read well to me though:
If so, they haven’t said informed us of that fact.
Is it just me, or should said be dropped?


Well spotted. It looks like one of these typical train of thought errors, where the author was probably thinking "if so, they haven't said so", but then decided that "informed" was a more formal and serious sounding option, but then forgot to remove the offending "said"...


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 10:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
Interesting article Mar 4, 2018

I even found it useful just for the reminder about synecdoche, a figure of speech I use quite a lot, but which I can never remember the name of

Thanks for posting.

[Edited at 2018-03-04 19:25 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
FWIW Mar 5, 2018

I thought the article was very poorly written. It tries way too hard to be erudite and ends up sounding pompous.

And the basic premise that the use of "the Russians" is some "insidious" and "subtle" ploy seems rather bizarre. They're very openly blaming the Russian government, not just some random peasants in Siberia!

It would also sound odd to me in English to just say "Russians". Germans like rules. French are good lovers. British can't cook. Nope, I don't see it.


 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 17:39
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Try Mar 5, 2018

British can't cook

Brits can't cook.


 
Heinrich Pesch
Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:39
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Hackers from Russia or The hackers from Russia? Mar 5, 2018

In German it sounds rather rude to write or say: Die Russen, die Amerikaner. Only in colloquial speech is it possible.

 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

The grammar of Russiagate: Russians or "the" Russians?







Trados Business Manager Lite
Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio

Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.

More info »
CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

Buy now! »