| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Have you considered expanding your business by outsourcing work? Thread poster: Daniela Zambrini
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| | EvaVer (X) 
Local time: 05:47
Czech to French
+ ...
| Yes and I decided against it. | May 13, 2014 |
You have no control over other people's work quality, unless you proofread all of it, and then it just creates more work for you. As for deadlines, you have no control at all. Besides, I use simplified accounting with a fixed percentage of deductible charges for tax purposes - I would have to go over to full accounting, still more work. Whenever I cannot do a job for a direct client myself, I recommend a colleague, but the contract must be directly between the client and the colleague (even if I... See more You have no control over other people's work quality, unless you proofread all of it, and then it just creates more work for you. As for deadlines, you have no control at all. Besides, I use simplified accounting with a fixed percentage of deductible charges for tax purposes - I would have to go over to full accounting, still more work. Whenever I cannot do a job for a direct client myself, I recommend a colleague, but the contract must be directly between the client and the colleague (even if I do proofread their work), for all the above reasons. ▲ Collapse
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EvaVer wrote:
You have no control over other people's work quality, unless you proofread all of it, and then it just creates more work for you.
| | | | eski
Mexico
Local time: 21:47
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | Yes, but only working with tried and proven colleagues | May 13, 2014 |
Hi everyone. About two years ago, I began working on a very large project for a major banking institution that was frankly, beyond the scope of my output. However, I was given over two months to get together a team of trusted colleagues who could collaborate with me on this project by the PM, a friend who gave me all of her support and encouraged me to accept the offer.
At first I was very unsure of myself and whether I could coordinate several translators on a daily basis for several week... See more Hi everyone. About two years ago, I began working on a very large project for a major banking institution that was frankly, beyond the scope of my output. However, I was given over two months to get together a team of trusted colleagues who could collaborate with me on this project by the PM, a friend who gave me all of her support and encouraged me to accept the offer.
At first I was very unsure of myself and whether I could coordinate several translators on a daily basis for several weeks during the project. Fortunately, my youngest daughter, Elizabeth, also a ProZ.com member, BTW, offered to help me coordinate the group of translators and proofreaders and to make sure we had the software licences required, etc. To make a long story short, we ended up winning the bid and eventually established a long-term relationship that continues to this day. Our little group of trusted and loyal colleagues is known as "The Spidersilk Collaborative". We have a skeleton crew on a regular, daily basis and several "on-demand" colleagues that we call on when the job requires more hands.
Hope this inspires you to "Step out on the water".
Best regards,
eski
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:40 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:40 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:41 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 23:47
German to English
| I've outsourced work | May 13, 2014 |
I've done this a few times successfully. Sometimes outsourcing is unavoidable. I had an extensive project for a direct client a few years ago. Although I did the translation myself (and my reviewer worked in my kitchen), I needed to outsource graphics and layout as well as some low-level language tasks (renaming files, checking cross-references, etc.) I've also outsourced translations on large projects with tight deadlines. I knew the translators involved and trusted their work, so extensive rev... See more I've done this a few times successfully. Sometimes outsourcing is unavoidable. I had an extensive project for a direct client a few years ago. Although I did the translation myself (and my reviewer worked in my kitchen), I needed to outsource graphics and layout as well as some low-level language tasks (renaming files, checking cross-references, etc.) I've also outsourced translations on large projects with tight deadlines. I knew the translators involved and trusted their work, so extensive revision wasn't necessary.
Since most of my projects come from agencies, outsourcing is generally out of the question. I agree with the contributors who feel that outsourcing on an ongoing poses risks and demands that aren't worth the extra income it might provide. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 05:47
German to Swedish
+ ...
| Unattractive | May 13, 2014 |
I have seen and rescued a lot of translations by incompetent, lazy or untalented translators - it's not fun. I definitely wouldn't want to outsource to this kind of low-rent provider and then spend my time injecting quality into the result.
On the other hand, I would expect to pay well to get the kind of quality that is acceptable to work with. So well that outsourcing of translations would be a low-margin business that requires a large number of jobs and a super-efficient workflow... See more I have seen and rescued a lot of translations by incompetent, lazy or untalented translators - it's not fun. I definitely wouldn't want to outsource to this kind of low-rent provider and then spend my time injecting quality into the result.
On the other hand, I would expect to pay well to get the kind of quality that is acceptable to work with. So well that outsourcing of translations would be a low-margin business that requires a large number of jobs and a super-efficient workflow to generate enough income to be worth while.
So for a one-man operation, outsourcing is not that attractive, unless you're prepared to be a bottom-feeder and exploit people.
One-off projects with trusted colleagues - that's another matter.
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 06:47
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| One obstacle | May 13, 2014 |
When outsourcing you need to charge your clients like an agency. So let's say if you work yourself for 1x per word, you would need to charge 2x for the outsourced work to balance all expanses and risks involved. When I outsourced at the start of my freelancing business I only charged a little more than and it was not worth the effort, since essentially I tried to pay my colleagues the same I got myself. So you would have to go about on a quite different scale and need to convince your clients th... See more When outsourcing you need to charge your clients like an agency. So let's say if you work yourself for 1x per word, you would need to charge 2x for the outsourced work to balance all expanses and risks involved. When I outsourced at the start of my freelancing business I only charged a little more than and it was not worth the effort, since essentially I tried to pay my colleagues the same I got myself. So you would have to go about on a quite different scale and need to convince your clients that you are worth the money.
I believe that's why there are so many outsourcers on the market that charge peanuts and try to find freelancers to work for half a peanut. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | On the contrary, I expanded my business by INsourcing work | May 13, 2014 |
Over the years, I expanded my business by including translation-peripheral services, like:
- DTP
- training video translation for dubbing (I began translating only their printed courseware)
- video translation for subtitling
- video subtitling
- video editing and DVD authoring
Of course, I still outsource some operations, like video translation in other language pairs than I serve, dubbing itself, mass disk duplication, printing, etc. however I give the... See more Over the years, I expanded my business by including translation-peripheral services, like:
- DTP
- training video translation for dubbing (I began translating only their printed courseware)
- video translation for subtitling
- video subtitling
- video editing and DVD authoring
Of course, I still outsource some operations, like video translation in other language pairs than I serve, dubbing itself, mass disk duplication, printing, etc. however I give the client a choice.
I can recommend my suppliers, and let the client deal with them directly. I don't make a cent, only goodwill, from their direct transactions.
However some clients don't want to be bothered, they want me to undertake the entire project. In this case, I demand up-front payment. Since I'm not making a profit on outsourcing, I won't undertake the liability for debt incurred with my fellow outsourcees:I pay them as I'd like to get paid, always COD.
When I don't have a reliable, high-quality provider for any part f the job to be outsourced, I tell the client so, and set them free to find anyone they like. I'll still be available provide my part of the job, if whoever they find can't do it for any reason (e.g. some subtitles translators don't burn them, don't author DVDs, etc.). ▲ Collapse
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Andrea Diaz
Mexico
Local time: 21:47
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Maybe I would. | May 13, 2014 |
What a lovely story eski, thank you so much for sharing it with us.
I'm still uncertain about outsourcing my work since I don't know if I'm "project manager" material, but I recently asked two colleagues of mine for help for an urgent project. They were my classmates during university, and I greatly respect their skills. Luckily, they are night owls and they were able to answer to my late call. I had to proofread the documents (more work), but the translation was almost perfect. To... See more What a lovely story eski, thank you so much for sharing it with us.
I'm still uncertain about outsourcing my work since I don't know if I'm "project manager" material, but I recently asked two colleagues of mine for help for an urgent project. They were my classmates during university, and I greatly respect their skills. Luckily, they are night owls and they were able to answer to my late call. I had to proofread the documents (more work), but the translation was almost perfect. To be honest, I felt really happy when I saw the finished product. The translation department in my university was tiny and there was only one or two classes for each generation, so I had the same 25 classmates during my university years. I was able to see how much they have grown since I remember how bad we all were in the beginning.
If I were to outsource my work, it would be only to translators I know and trust. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 05:47
German to Swedish
+ ...
Andrea Diaz wrote:
I don't know if I'm "project manager" material.
Self-doubt is an underrated management qualification.
It can yield excellent results.
Managers convinced of their own infallibility are unpleasant to work for (and usually fallible).
| | | | | Against, and some thoughts | May 13, 2014 |
I would either run an agency under my own name or concentrate on my own work, but I'm not a fan of the idea of translators outsourcing their excessive workload, paying them less than what's already a translator's rate, not an agency's.
This is because an established translator's name attracts the business initially, true, but later on the fuel for that comes from the work of those other translators. And the clients may even still be attributing the quality of that translation person... See more I would either run an agency under my own name or concentrate on my own work, but I'm not a fan of the idea of translators outsourcing their excessive workload, paying them less than what's already a translator's rate, not an agency's.
This is because an established translator's name attracts the business initially, true, but later on the fuel for that comes from the work of those other translators. And the clients may even still be attributing the quality of that translation personally to the outsourcing translator rather than the translator who really does the work.
I think this has a place in a mentoring type of relationship, but it shouldn't really go on past that unless an agency is established, where the outsourcing is more obvious and more clearly communicated to the clients.
Still, one can always have a freelance team where the original team acts as the spokesperson and co-ordinator. Or the recommending translator can position himself or herself as an 'enabler' for the client (a source of useful contacts). I'm just not in favour of more vertical relationships, especially any ones that may be misleading.
Sometimes it's easier to take on more work and start outsourcing than it is to raise one's rates, but in the interest of the entire profession (or 'industry') translators who are in demand should raise their rates and allow their less wanted colleagues to climb up as well and claim those rates at which the established translator's demand far exceeded the supply.
... In which case the more wanted translator will earn more, the less wanted translator will earn more, and the client will get the choice either to work with the less wanted translator or to up the rates and continue to work with the old, more wanted translator. Everybody gains. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 05:47
Italian to English
In memoriam | By and large... | May 13, 2014 |
... I agree with Łukasz.
In the past, I have successfully coordinated biggish projects in which all the translators, including me, invoiced the customer directly for work done while I added on a pre-agreed management fee. The question to ask, however, is this - do you feel happier translating (plus doing whatever administrative work your tax domicile requires) or would you feel more comfortable being in charge of everything?
If you fall into the latter category, and ar... See more ... I agree with Łukasz.
In the past, I have successfully coordinated biggish projects in which all the translators, including me, invoiced the customer directly for work done while I added on a pre-agreed management fee. The question to ask, however, is this - do you feel happier translating (plus doing whatever administrative work your tax domicile requires) or would you feel more comfortable being in charge of everything?
If you fall into the latter category, and are good at what you do, the rewards are potentially great. But if you translate, and already make enough to justify your and your dependants' existence, why bother? The chances are you'll end up doing a lot of management and not very much translation, which may be lucrative but won't satisfy your inner Chapman.
Another point to consider is that once you have established a reputation in certain sectors and/or language combinations, casting your net wider is going to carry the risk of brand dilution if your collaborators aren't up to scratch.
[Edited at 2014-05-13 20:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I haven't considered outsourcing work until now (the mere notion of what it takes to coordinate a project is daunting) so thanks for sharing your points of view.
Each of your posts provides food for thought!
Interesting discussion I look forward to reading more.
Ciao,
Daniela
@Giles I learnt something new today! (Keats on
Chapman's Homer)
| | | | Jorge Herran
Peru
Local time: 22:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
| Yes, I did, I do and I will... | May 15, 2014 |
Hi Daniela, I am new on ProZ, but I have an extensive experience being a Freelance translator in the language pair from English to Spanish.
When I just started working as a Translator I never outsourced the work (there was no point in doing it so, because I had very few projects), however, when I started having more workload than the one I could handle I started with a policy of always say "Yes" to a project, (because in my opinion is better to earn half of a given amount than noth... See more Hi Daniela, I am new on ProZ, but I have an extensive experience being a Freelance translator in the language pair from English to Spanish.
When I just started working as a Translator I never outsourced the work (there was no point in doing it so, because I had very few projects), however, when I started having more workload than the one I could handle I started with a policy of always say "Yes" to a project, (because in my opinion is better to earn half of a given amount than nothing) and my fee scheme started to consider that hiring another person to replace me if I am unable to perform a job by myself is always a possibility.
When I started outsourcing I had very difficult experiences because I hired people that either:
-Sent me the content with the first part translated and the rest of it with a Machine translation (and I had to translate all the content from zero)
-Gave me a lot of work because they did not produced a good quality translation (and I spent almost the same time for proofreading their translations than to make the translation myself),
-Did not translated with the desired speed,
-Could not handle the desired workload
However, almost two years ago I found an amazing translator that charges half of my fee per word, is fast, reliable, responsive... a lot of good things, I always proofread her work, but is just a formality, because her work is impressive.
I think that always the main issue for outsourcing is the HR, is hard to find someone that produces a quality work with a fee that will allow you to have a decent profit margin.
Kind regards ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 11:47
Chinese to English
| Can be very satisfying, but I would only do it small | May 15, 2014 |
I've done this once or twice for large projects. I had varying experiences. The best experience was with a translator a little younger and less experienced than me. He was willing to accept direction, very proactive in working with me, and I think we got a good result. I've been happy to recommend him to clients independently ever since.
In other cases it hasn't worked so well - some colleagues are a little more set in their ways, and not so willing to change styles so that we mesh.... See more I've done this once or twice for large projects. I had varying experiences. The best experience was with a translator a little younger and less experienced than me. He was willing to accept direction, very proactive in working with me, and I think we got a good result. I've been happy to recommend him to clients independently ever since.
In other cases it hasn't worked so well - some colleagues are a little more set in their ways, and not so willing to change styles so that we mesh. Perhaps I'm just a control freak, but as Giles said, brand is important.
If you can find good people to work with, I'd say do it, because collaboration is a great way to learn. But you have to watch out for the problems of paperwork and management, so I personally would be unlikely to try more than a 2 person collaboration. ▲ Collapse
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