| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Unethical practice by agency in India Thread poster: Sachiko Deguzman
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| Never do unpaid translation sample. | Mar 5, 2013 |
If an agency cannot afford to pay for a 200-300 translation sample, the agency it not worth working for. Period.
What would happen if you had 100 translation companies asking you to submit a sample?
That is what a CV and references are for.
Free sample requests are evidence of cheapskate agency/client!
Anything less than 5 in BlueBoard = Stay away!
Good luck!
S. D. wrote: I am not sure where to post this, but I wanted to share this with other translators here. I apologize in advance for writing long message. About three weeks ago, I saw this agency in India posting "Eng-Jpn translator urgently required" in Proz. When I saw this posting, I noticed that I had only 2 hours before the deadline to submit my resume. It was around midnight here in my EST time, so I thought I would just email them my resume with cover letter before I went to bed. I did not know how "urgent" it was for them.... I also gave my rate in the subject line as they requested us to do so. I assumed that they wanted to screen candidates by rate. I discounted my rate a little since they were located in India. In 5 minutes, they replied to me and said they wanted me to take sample test. I told them it was already after midnight here and I could work on the sample next day. No reply... I looked at the sample and it was short (about 200 words) and easy. I decided to do it and submitted it to them around 1am here. They replied and asked me "how do you feel doing this sample translation? What was the difficulty level of this translation?" Next day I replied to him that I enjoyed taking this test and there were not difficult terminologies but it requires some marketing skills since this document's purpose was trying to sell a product. I feel comfortable doing this because I have experience. etc...... " After this, no reply. Then, next day I saw them posting the same job opening again, but this time they put (Marketing) after the same title "Eng-Jpn translator urgently required." So, I thought... okay, they just used my idea what sort of skill was required. One week passed and no feedback, so I asked them about the result of the sample. No reply... so I decided to just let it go. Then, a week after that, I got an email from them using the same email thread with my rate in the subject line. I thought that it was about the sample I submitted. However, it had nothing to do with my sample and he had a translation project for me, which was 4700 words at $0.03/word and due in two days (Saturday and Sunday). I told him that I do not work for $0.03/word and that my rate was written on the subject line. Also, I told him that I accept a job only from an agency that I have good relationship with. I pointed out that I do not consider their business practice (not replying to my email, ignoring my rate, etc.) as good relationship for me. Later they replied to me and apologized for what happened. They stated that they were too busy and actually there was not feedback from the client for my sample. Then, why don't you say so???? They were still asking me if I could become their "business partner." I replied to them saying that I could do only if they could agree with my rate. They said the best rate they can offer is $0.04/word and $5/1000 word/hour for review.... Well, it is less than half of my rate. I, of course, declined their offer. I pointed out that they should not have asked me to take the sample test if they could not agree with my rate from the beginning and instead they should have just turned it down saying that my rate was too high for them. I mentioned that how they handle business is unethical. I learned my lesson as well.... I needed to confirm at first that they do agree with my rate before I take the test. I just assumed that they agreed because it was already specified in the subject line in my email... This is a company with 4.7 BB rating in Proz. Please be aware, everyone! thanks for reading 
| | | | Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 01:18
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Do not lower your rates for specific countries | Mar 5, 2013 |
This is very unwise behaviour for a freelancer. If agencies in some countries get work done cheaper than in others clients will move to them and soon no-one will pay decent rates for our service.
Do you think you save children from starvation or something like that when working cheap for agencies in certain countries? Think again! The savings go to the clients from rich countries that use these agencies.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 03:48
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The reason why | Mar 5, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
... but I'm fascinated as to why these companies would contact freelance translators outside India for language combinations that come clearly from a client outside India...
That is quite easy to understand. Many large translation agencies in the US and Europe have recently opened offices in India and they offer the full range of translation services in all languages from their India offices. They hire Indian translators, and you will be surprised to know that you can find Indian translators in most foreign languages, thanks to the large Indian diaspora which is spread across the globe. Moreover, many foreigners have settled in the larger Indian cities like Delhi or Mumbai or Bangalore. They work for multi-nationals located in India and their family members, spouses for example, often offer translation services. Languages like German, French (which was spoken in one tiny corner of India until recently), Japanese, and now increasingly Chinese are well represented by Indian translators.
These translation agencies follow a pattern earlier adopted by software companies which relocated to cheaper locations in Bangalore, Philippines and China to avoid the high cost of labour in the richer countries.
I personally know of a Belgian agency that has recently opened an office in Czechoslovakia and this office offers a much lower rate for translation than the parent Belgian company. A UK based translation agency too now has an office in Chennai. Another international translation agency has an office in Mumbai and it offers translation rates in Indian rupees which when converted into dollars is much lower than the rates being talked about in this thread.
In addition to these international translation agencies, many Indian agencies too offer translation services on a global scale in all languages. They hire foreign translators when they can't find Indians with the required linguistic skills.
The point to note is that translation is increasingly becoming a globalized industry and service providers do not necessarily reside in the area where their language is spoken.
In fact, it would make more sense to move to India and work with companies everywhere except India.
Very true. This, in fact, is the strategy I assiduously follow, though, I don't have to relocate to India, as I already live in India.
[2013-03-05 11:45 GMT पर संपादन हुआ]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:18
Hebrew to English
| Why single out UK agencies? Many other countries have worse reps... | Mar 5, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
And I don't agree with Ty either, that such low rates as 0.03 USD per word, are sufficient for Indian translators (those living in India) to keep body and soul together. The truth is, many places like Mumbai, where I live, are extremely costly, much more than many parts of the affluent world, and for a translator to maintain a decent life-style, competitive international rates are an absolute necessity.
I never said that. I actually only reiterated what an Indian translator above me had said (that it's possible to get by on this in India, even if not in the more "affluent" areas). I certainly never said, nor implied that 0.03$ was enough to live the life of Riley, even in India.
Talking of UK, there are quite a few low-paying agencies there too.
Debatable. We certainly aren't in the same league as South/South-East Asia.
Edited: For even greater diplomacy.
[Edited at 2013-03-05 13:13 GMT]
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Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 00:18
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
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| nothing unethical about it... really | Mar 5, 2013 |
S. D. wrote:
... I discounted my rate a little since they were located in India. ..
Why? This is the first mistake - Eng- Jpn is obviously not an local combination, products or services are sold in Japan for Japanse rates, by English / US company. Why should your part of 0,00000001 % of the total development cost, marketing plans, advertising be extra discounted???
S. D. wrote:
... They said the best rate they can offer is $0.04/word and $5/1000 word/hour for review.....
As discussed, probably a good rate in India, if you are Indian, or Chinese in China, total crap for native non-Indian, especially Western-Europeans. Indians are not stupid, they do know the cost of living is much higher in Western-Europe, however they will act like it is such a poor country and they are sooo poor, and they really cannot afford anything higher - yeah right!, they work for Western-European companies and offer bottom rates to translators stupid enough to fall for these lies...
Most Indian companies will offer 0,03 -0,05 or lower, it's something you learn very quickly after 1 or 2 months as a translator - -so ALWAYS negociate your rates, before doing any test
S. D. wrote: I learned my lesson as well.... I needed to confirm at first that they do agree with my rate before I take the test. I just assumed that they agreed because it was already specified in the subject line in my email... This is a company with 4.7 BB rating in Proz. Please be aware, everyone! thanks for reading
Lesson learned! and not very costly either (1 small free test)
...also when they state URGENT it is also a trick to make sure people do not have the time to think about the low rates, or check payment practices - what may seem like a good deal (large volume, constant stream of work,... ) is in fact peanuts and you could spend your time looking for better clients (.... do you alway press that button ORDER NOW? only 3 left on stock? ) ... I don't think so!
So let's get SMARTER, and EDUCATE our clients, EDUCATE other translators, STOP accepting LOW RATES!
(if you know the final client for this project, check and see if you can find that text on their website or something and complain to them about the horrible quality of the Japanese (...which is likely if they've used a peanuts translator))...
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 00:18
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| local is fine, but not for non-native language combinations destined for foreign markets | Mar 5, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
These translation agencies follow a pattern earlier adopted by software companies which relocated to cheaper locations in Bangalore, Philippines and China to avoid the high cost of labour in the richer countries.
I personally know of a Belgian agency that has recently opened an office in Czechoslovakia and this office offers a much lower rate for translation than the parent Belgian company. A UK based translation agency too now has an office in Chennai. ken.
Which would be cool if they expected local Indian translators to do all the work locally.
The moment they are hiring specialist, native translators in two languages not native to India (and even if the source language in English), they should expect to pay normal rates like everybody else.... and not insult my intelligence by acting stupid...
I don't care if your office is in Mumbai and a cup of coffee and a burger costs 100 rupies . - - My home is in the Netherlands, and I have to spend my money here.
So if you are looking for French -> Dutch, I'm not going to accept Indian rates...
| | | | | How very very true | Mar 5, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Very true. This, in fact, is the strategy I assiduously follow, though, I don't have to relocate to India, as I already live in India.
And I live in indonesia. Like Edward, I translate into Dutch. Unlike Edward I don't "have to spend my money" in Holland. And to add insult to injury, I charge European rates and enjoy huge tax benefits.
So let's get SMARTER
Good thinking, Edward…
Salam,
Hans
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:18
Hebrew to English
| Not everyone wants to live in the Third World | Mar 5, 2013 |
...Or to be more politically correct, "a developing country", even if it does make sound economic sense (lower cost of living, tax breaks etc.). In fact, many people can't due to family/other ties.
Actually, I've lived in a D-8 country and financially I wasn't any better-off than I am now living back in England.
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That's a bit harsh, Ty, don't you think?
[Edited at 2013-03-05 13:30 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:18
Hebrew to English
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
That's a bit harsh, Ty, don't you think?
I was actually being diplomatic, given the cumulation of this and other anti-British sentiment in other posts.
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Ty Kendall wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
That's a bit harsh, Ty, don't you think? I was actually being diplomatic, given the cumulation of this and other anti-British sentiment in other posts.
I don't see any anti-British sentiment in this thread... but, then, I'm not British. I think your choice of words could have been better...
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:18
Hebrew to English
| Beat you to it | Mar 5, 2013 |
To fall in line with ProZ sensitivities I've edited the title, although my point remains. If it was his intention to highlight the fact that Western European agencies can also "offer" low rates, he could have done that without a tenuous segue from a list of random countries (i.e. it's "interesting" albeit not surprising he singled out the UK).
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| And that's true as well | Mar 5, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Not everyone wants to live in the Third World
Yes. But the ones who don't seem to want to fight globalisation. Go ahead, but I have my doubts.
Actually, I've lived in a D-8 country and financially I wasn't any better-off than I am now living back in England
I'm far better off in Indonesia than I would've been in Holland, but you are right. I couldn't possibly survive on an average Indonesian salary. I need as much money as I would have needed in Holland, it's just that I enjoy more luxury.
That said, I live in Indonesia because I love the country. It never occurred to me that it's cheaper to live there, mainly because I was loaded when I moved to the most beautiful country of the world. (That was years before I became a translator, of course). No skiing here, though.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | | I've edited my too... | Mar 5, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
To fall in line with ProZ sensitivities I've edited the title, although my point remains. If it was his intention to highlight the fact that Western European agencies can also "offer" low rates, he could have done that without a tenuous segue from a list of random countries (i.e. it's "interesting" albeit not surprising he singled out the UK).
That's because there are many British agencies which actually do offer quite low rates and they are more widespread than in countries like France or Germany. But I can see why it could be interpreted the way you did...
| | | | Sachiko Deguzman
United States
Local time: 18:18
English to Japanese
TOPIC STARTER
for taking time to read my post and replying me. I really appreciate all the tips that you provided and I learned my lesson well. I will remember the good tips that you gave me and apply them for the next time. Have a good day!
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