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700 word test - what do you think about it?
Thread poster: Nick Golensky
Ocean520
Ocean520  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 22:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
I wondered too Mar 13, 2011

Nikita Kobrin wrote:

I often heard the question: 'Who checks our tests?'

I once accepted a short test from an agency. The test was not difficult and was
just in the field that I am familiar with (the topic was in exactly the same field as one of my ongoing projects from another agency) .
I was confident about my test translation. I sent my test and received the reply
from that agency: their end client chose another translator's trans.
Well, it's fine with me. Anyone can choose whatever version they like. No big deal.
But that agency also sent me the version that won the end client's favor.
I was surprised to find: there was one typo, and a long phrase was missing in the trans.
I didn't point out the mistakes in the trans and just replied to the agency:
thanks for letting me know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to the topic:
A 700 word test is too much. I won't usually accept it. But sometimes if the content is interesting, I might accept it if I have time.
Tina Vonhof wrote:
4) that you would want to be paid your regular rate for the test but would deduct that amount from the cost of the entire job, as someone else suggested above.

This is a helpful suggestion. Next time I can use this tip to negotiate with the client if there is a long test. : )


[Edited at 2011-03-13 05:17 GMT]


 
tazdog (X)
tazdog (X)
Spain
Local time: 15:13
Spanish to English
+ ...
unpaid tests are generally a waste of time, in my experience Mar 13, 2011

Jabberwock wrote:

I treat tests as an investment - relatively small effort which can bring in new clients. It is much cheaper and more effective than other forms of marketing.


I used to look at unpaid tests this way, too...until I found, over the course of many years, that of all the test translations I'd done to be included in agency databases, NOT A SINGLE ONE had resulted in a job. Just think about it: not even one short job out of all of those unpaid hours of work. That's not a very good investment, I would say.

The only tests I do now are either paid, or very short (around 200 words max.) unpaid tests for a specific, specialized project. I have had very good results with tests of this type. In fact, the job I am doing now is for an agency that initially told me my rate was too high, but ended up giving me the job (around 40,000 w.) after a paid 1,000+-word test, a short sample from that project.


 
Jaroslaw Michalak
Jaroslaw Michalak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 15:13
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
Experience Mar 13, 2011

Cindy Chadd wrote:

I used to look at unpaid tests this way, too...until I found, over the course of many years, that of all the test translations I'd done to be included in agency databases, NOT A SINGLE ONE had resulted in a job. Just think about it: not even one short job out of all of those unpaid hours of work. That's not a very good investment, I would say.


That explains different attitudes toward tests, I suppose...

Most of my experiences were quite positive - many (if not most) tests brought me well-paid projects. There were also some other benefits - like agency happily agreeing to a higher rate than what they proposed initially after they saw test results, getting projects from an agency even if the original job didn't work out due to the end client's decision, etc.

Note, however, that I usually do excerpts from specific jobs (and, of course, they are not 700 words long). I rarely get run-of-the-mill tests sent from agencies "just in case", so they can put them in their database. I suppose yield ratio for those is rather low.

It has been discussed (many times) before, so I'll keep it short: sometimes references and sample translations are just not enough to choose a translator. For technical projects in narrow fields, but also for particular marketing texts, the end client needs to know that the translator has the "feel" for the subject and that their style and vocabulary fits the purpose.

As for paying for tests: knowing the market a bit, I find it hard to believe that agencies can easily pass the costs of the test onto the end client before the project is awarded. It happens for some projects, but I suspect it is rather rare.

In other words, an agency would have to pay for the screening procedure upfront and out of their own pocket. So, if you want to do paid tests only, you expect the agency to take the risk for the prospect of a possible project - that is, the very thing you are unwilling to do... Fair enough, but I don't see the reason to get indignant - it's just a business decision on both sides.


 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:13
French to German
+ ...
Operating expenses, then? Mar 13, 2011

Jabberwock wrote:

(.../...)
As for paying for tests: knowing the market a bit, I find it hard to believe that agencies can easily pass the costs of the test onto the end client before the project is awarded. It happens for some projects, but I suspect it is rather rare.

In other words, an agency would have to pay for the screening procedure upfront and out of their own pocket. So, if you want to do paid tests only, you expect the agency to take the risk for the prospect of a possible project - that is, the very thing you are unwilling to do... Fair enough, but I don't see the reason to get indignant - it's just a business decision on both sides.


I am quite sure that screening processes can be recorded as operating expenses.


 
Radosveta Golden
Radosveta Golden  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:13
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
Unfortunately this s..t happens more often than it should Mar 14, 2011

freelance522 wrote:

I was confident about my test translation. I sent my test and received the reply
from that agency: their end client chose another translator's trans.
Well, it's fine with me. Anyone can choose whatever version they like. No big deal.
But that agency also sent me the version that won the end client's favor.
I was surprised to find: there was one typo, and a long phrase was missing in the trans.
I didn't point out the mistakes in the trans and just replied to the agency:
thanks for letting me know.


[Edited at 2011-03-13 05:17 GMT]


I have noticed that all kinds of people check the tests. Here we are getting back to the topic about the unprofessional companies, calling themselves professional and I can also say a lot about who exactly has the right to be dubbed "a linguist", because it definately isn't any person, who has whatever knowledge about a certain language. However, I'd rather save myself the frustration. Sending you another person's test is just wrong and unethical, but I won't even go there. I did a test once and I was also confident, because the text wasn't even too difficult. Then they told me I failed. I wrote them back and insisted to see my errors. They sent it to me. All corrections were handled in track-changes mode, so I had the chance to see exactly what I did wrong. Now, I won't get in specific details, because this is my native language I am talking about, but let me just say this, the "reviewer" had introduced errors to replace correct spelling and punctuation. Particular mandatory commas were deleted from their proper places and placed where they are not supposed to be (these are skills one should master far before becoming a translator, hmmm, say in 5-6 grade tops). The correct spelling of two terms (compound words actually, which are supposed to be spelled as a whole word, no hyphenations) was amended with hyphenation and a comment was provided, stating that the translator (meaning me) cannot spell the terms properly. By the way, these two terms are listed in the official spelling dictionary with explanation why exactly they should be written as whole words, but somebody needs to read this kind of books every now and then to know. I would say that this was one of the rare cases in my life when I was speechless. I was still thinking what is the right thing to do in this case and then, just 2 days later (right after the weekend), I received another e-mail from this company, asking me to accept working for them at lower rates than what I had already stated, since I had failed their test. Well, I just told them that I think their company deserves a translator who is more suitable for their standards than me and that I am grateful for the offer, but I will have to decline. Why didn't I get in an argument with them about the test, their "experienced linguist reviewer" (their statement) or the rate dumping? Very simple, I just had a really big project to work on and it had nothing to do with their company.


 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:13
French to German
+ ...
Humiliation, manipulation or both? Mar 14, 2011

Radost_BG wrote:

(.../...) I was still thinking what is the right thing to do in this case and then, just 2 days later (right after the weekend), I received another e-mail from this company, asking me to accept working for them at lower rates than what I had already stated, since I had failed their test. Well, I just told them that I think their company deserves a translator who is more suitable for their standards than me and that I am grateful for the offer, but I will have to decline. Why didn't I get in an argument with them about the test, their "experienced linguist reviewer" (their statement) or the rate dumping? Very simple, I just had a really big project to work on and it had nothing to do with their company.


Humiliation, manipulation or both? It seems to me that sometimes tests are just fallacious pretexts to justify lower rates on the grounds that one failed in doing them?

At that level of doubt, and for all I know, the "experienced linguist reviewers" (who most of the time remain anonymous) may make unjustified corrections on purpose.


 
Nick Golensky
Nick Golensky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 16:13
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Please all posters! Mar 14, 2011

I kindly ask you not to share your experience regarding short tests (100-300 words), this is OFF-topic. Here we discuss opinions which concern very large volumes ONLY like 700 or so.

 
Radosveta Golden
Radosveta Golden  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:13
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
You are right Mar 14, 2011

Nick Golensky wrote:

I kindly ask you not to share your experience regarding short tests (100-300 words), this is OFF-topic. Here we discuss opinions which concern very large volumes ONLY like 700 or so.


And it all went too far, but it should have become clear to you by now, that the situation with your 700 words test situation is not so normal, because they don't usually come with this word count. Bottom line, your test shouldn't be the size of a small job. Up to 200 words is more than enough to evaluate a translator and if the company intended to pay for the test, they were supposed to express this offer when they asked you to do the test and not after you sent them your answer, because it only leaves the impression as though they were never going to pay. As for the rudeness, may be it was not good to be rude when you answered, but you see, sometimes outrageous requests call for outrageous responses.


 
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700 word test - what do you think about it?







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