| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | "My usual rate for Indians is X" - insulting to an agency? Thread poster: Samuel Murray
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| from personal to neutral | Jul 29, 2010 |
Hi Samuel,
although I am Italian my personal opinion is that I would percieve your sentence directed to "Indians" as slightly (albeit unitentionally) offensive , whereas I would understand and not be offended if you chose a different and more neutral wording.
For example "customers based in India" ISO "Indians".
I hope I haven't misunderstood, but I gather that you are in actual fact willing to propose a lower rate for these customers, compared to your sta... See more Hi Samuel,
although I am Italian my personal opinion is that I would percieve your sentence directed to "Indians" as slightly (albeit unitentionally) offensive , whereas I would understand and not be offended if you chose a different and more neutral wording.
For example "customers based in India" ISO "Indians".
I hope I haven't misunderstood, but I gather that you are in actual fact willing to propose a lower rate for these customers, compared to your standard rate other countries.
So I think that it would be important to focus on the positive aspect of your offer, keeping the motivation more neutral and less related to people.
Please put me back on the right track if I have wrongly undestrood your question.
Ciao,
Daniela ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 02:20
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| Why country specific rates? | Jul 29, 2010 |
I really can see no sense in offering different rates for agencies in different countries. Do you type faster when translating for X:ians than for Y:ians? Do your spend less time on research and proofing for certain countries? Is your software cheaper when you use it for low price agencies?
Translation is a global market. That means European clients shop for cheap translation in Asia and Latin America. And some translators even charge less when they send their work to low price coun... See more I really can see no sense in offering different rates for agencies in different countries. Do you type faster when translating for X:ians than for Y:ians? Do your spend less time on research and proofing for certain countries? Is your software cheaper when you use it for low price agencies?
Translation is a global market. That means European clients shop for cheap translation in Asia and Latin America. And some translators even charge less when they send their work to low price countries? Does that make any sense? If we all would do it translation agencies in high price coutries would go out of business and all translators would have to move to the Third World or stop translating.
Regards
Heinrich ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrea Flaßbeck (X)
Germany
Local time: 01:20
English to German
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| Exactly my thoughts! | Jul 29, 2010 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
I really can see no sense in offering different rates for agencies in different countries. Do you type faster when translating for X:ians than for Y:ians? Do your spend less time on research and proofing for certain countries? Is your software cheaper when you use it for low price agencies?
Translation is a global market. That means European clients shop for cheap translation in Asia and Latin America. And some translators even charge less when they send their work to low price countries? Does that make any sense? If we all would do it translation agencies in high price coutries would go out of business and all translators would have to move to the Third World or stop translating.
I am living in Germany and I am paying my bills in Germany, so I simply can't afford working for Third World rates. Sorry, but your approach is repulsive to me.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 01:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | @Andrea and Heinrich | Jul 29, 2010 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
I really can see no sense in offering different rates for agencies in different countries. Do you type faster when translating for X:ians than for Y:ians? Do your spend less time on research and proofing for certain countries? Is your software cheaper when you use it for low price agencies?
My rate is not based solely on what I need to earn to break even. The situation in different markets also play a role. I think this is a good topic for discussion, for no doubt you believe your points are valid, but I think it should be done in a separate thread.
Andrea Flaßbeck wrote:
I am living in Germany and I am paying my bills in Germany, so I simply can't afford working for Third World rates. Sorry, but your approach is repulsive to me.
Here's a thought for you: If you can't afford to charge less for some clients, then it means that your usual rate (i.e what you charge the majority of your clients) is too low.
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Andrea Flaßbeck (X)
Germany
Local time: 01:20
English to German
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If you can't afford to charge less for some clients, then it means that your usual rate (i.e what you charge the majority of your clients) is too low.
No, it means that I charge fair rates and don't let my clients in Europe or elsewhere pay for other clients not willing (or not able for that matter) to pay decent rates .
But you're right, I'm off topic.
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:20
Flemish to English
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I am considering throwing the "per word or per line of 55 characters payment system" overboard.
My friend is a dentist-dental surgeon. I visited his practice a couple of times for a treatment. The minimum he charges is £40/€50 for about 20 minutes of work.
If he has to treat two teeth, it is £60/€75 and that takes him 30 minutes.
In an hour, he tries to see three patients, which means that he earns 150 euro/£120 per hour before taxes. Take away 30-40% and you arrive at ... See more I am considering throwing the "per word or per line of 55 characters payment system" overboard.
My friend is a dentist-dental surgeon. I visited his practice a couple of times for a treatment. The minimum he charges is £40/€50 for about 20 minutes of work.
If he has to treat two teeth, it is £60/€75 and that takes him 30 minutes.
In an hour, he tries to see three patients, which means that he earns 150 euro/£120 per hour before taxes. Take away 30-40% and you arrive at 75 euros per hour.
Now, it may be that I gain more by adopting the hourly system or that I lose because the number of words I can translate in 1 hour supersedes my hourly rate. (Could opt for whichever is higher). Our conference-interpreter colleagues earn about 50-75 euros per hour.
Another acquaintance, who is a freelance programmer, asks 75 euros per hour x8 hours.
Asking the rate of other professionals per hour would not only increase the standing of the profession, but also eliminate offers like 40000 words and 10000 reps, which made some agencies grow spectacularly at the translator's expense. The only thing they had to do is find the customer.
As for Indian agencies, I would answer: Thank you for your kind offer. However, given the cost of living in my country, I can not accept your offer unless you are willing to pay me €75 per hour.
[Edited at 2010-07-29 12:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 01:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Williamson wrote:
As for Indian agencies, I would answer: Thank you for your kind offer. However, given the cost of living in my country, I can not accept your offer unless you are willing to pay me €75 per hour.
That may be, but this doesn't help me know what the answer to my original question is. Obviously some translators don't adjust their rates for different clients, and that is perfectly all right, but some of us do, and those of us who do have to deal with certain issues, such as how to communicate it in an e-mail to a potential client whom we do not want to offend.
| | | | imatahan
Brazil
Local time: 20:20
English to Portuguese
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| Good solution, Jabberwock! | Jul 29, 2010 |
If you do not trust a client/agency, why to work for them?
I do some work for indians. They'd never been late, or let me wothout payment, It would be unfair on me to say so, but they really pay ridiculous fees. If it is a big amount of work, it is worth. But this is a very personal choice, a question of free time, of your necessity, etc.
I've had problems with a Peruvian lady that's never paid me, and a Brazilian colleague... sad sad sad....
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| hold price fixed and variate the discount rates | Jul 29, 2010 |
You can always state a price, less a discount. A price is a price, a discounted price is a discounted price for some or for somewhere.
So, when India is in question, you state your price, less ...% discount
For S. Africa, your price, less ..% discount
For China, your price, less .% discount.
For countries on fat-of-the-land: your price.
I'd be offended seeing "For Indian.." because "from India" sounds nicer. Otherwise, one might co... See more You can always state a price, less a discount. A price is a price, a discounted price is a discounted price for some or for somewhere.
So, when India is in question, you state your price, less ...% discount
For S. Africa, your price, less ..% discount
For China, your price, less .% discount.
For countries on fat-of-the-land: your price.
I'd be offended seeing "For Indian.." because "from India" sounds nicer. Otherwise, one might consider you a cowboy, Samuel.
Dragomir ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Avoid the insult | Jul 29, 2010 |
Would you feel insulted if an agency told you "our method of payment for South Africans (or for Germans) is..."? Wouldn't you at least wondering why they need to single you out?
I have a usual rate, but this rate varies depending on many factors, so I normally offer quotes saying: "I have reviewed the document you want me to translate. For this particular project, I will charge $xxx.xx"
You are not giving them a special rate just because they are Indians. If you rea... See more Would you feel insulted if an agency told you "our method of payment for South Africans (or for Germans) is..."? Wouldn't you at least wondering why they need to single you out?
I have a usual rate, but this rate varies depending on many factors, so I normally offer quotes saying: "I have reviewed the document you want me to translate. For this particular project, I will charge $xxx.xx"
You are not giving them a special rate just because they are Indians. If you really feel you need to explain your rate, I would think of the specific reason that you are giving this agency that particular rate (because they are out of your country, because they are first time clients, because they are giving you a very small project, etc.) and indicate that, again, if you feel you need to. For instance: My rate for out-of-country clients is...., For any text that does not exceed xxxx words my rate is...
Good luck,
Arturo ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I certainly chuckled (in a bad way) | Jul 29, 2010 |
Daniela Zambrini wrote:
I would percieve your sentence directed to "Indians" as slightly (albeit unitentionally) offensive , whereas I would understand and not be offended if you chose a different and more neutral wording.
For example "customers based in India" ISO "Indians".
Indeed, taken at face value it would potentially fall foul of discrimination legislation. I was half-expecting to open the thread and read about a rate for blacks. Or maybe I should get my neighbour to outsource some work to Samuel, what with him being Indian 'n' all. I could get stuff done cheaply, then Anyway, IMHO you can't be going around charging different prices based on nationality or ethnicity. Or using phrases that sound like you do.
You should (morally and legally, I believe) only charge different prices based on factors that people can actually change - albeit perhaps not easily, but yes, for the sake of all that's holy and to avoid getting yourself in deep doo-doo, please use the phrase "based in x".
I also happen to agree with Heinrich and Andrea but we are, of course, all free to choose our own strategy, and apparently it's O/T anyway.
| | | | Speranza
Local time: 01:20
Spanish to Russian
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| Business as usual | Jul 29, 2010 |
Price discrimination is a normal part of business. It is lamentable that many translators are economically illiterate enough to find this practice absurd. In terms of money, business should be aimed at maximizing profitability, not prices.
That said, price discrimination means there is no "usual price" applicable across the board. And you don't need to explain exactly how you discriminate. "The rate I can offer for this project is XX" is neutral, accurate and doesn't offend anyone.
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 01:20
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Not in all industries. | Jul 29, 2010 |
Nadejda Vega Cespedes wrote:
In terms of money, business should be aimed at maximizing profitability, not prices.
If we produced identical plastic glasses on an assembly line, and not translations, this may be true.
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:20
English to Arabic
+ ...
| Daniela's point summed it up! | Jul 29, 2010 |
(and yet you didn't respond to her suggestion...)
Daniela Zambrini wrote:
although I am Italian my personal opinion is that I would percieve your sentence directed to "Indians" as slightly (albeit unitentionally) offensive , whereas I would understand and not be offended if you chose a different and more neutral wording.
For example "customers based in India" ISO "Indians".
Whether or not you should charge clients in different countries differently is entirely up to you - yet most respondents to this thread seem to have focused on this personal point.
Your question was whether your statement could be regarded as offensive, and I agree with Daniela that it would - simply because you singled out a nationality (or ethnicity) rather than the location of the client (which might be justifiable for various economic reasons).
As Charlie humorously pointed out, would you grant his UK-based Indian neighbour a discount, simply because he's Indian?
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PS: Basically my posting is just reiterating Charlie's!
[Edited at 2010-07-29 22:56 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:20
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| I went to Cape Town once 15 years ago | Jul 29, 2010 |
and stayed in an Indian family. From them I knew there are thousands of Indians there. Why not ask them about it?
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » "My usual rate for Indians is X" - insulting to an agency? | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
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