| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | How much do you make? Thread poster: Vytautas Kacerauskis
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Samuel Murray wrote: If I could speculate, then, I'd say that the American would refuse to disclose his salary for fear that he might not measure up to the asker's salary (or for fear that the asker may unwittingly be revealed as someone who does not measure up to his) ... And of course one should add a disclaimer to such statements that it is necessarily generalised.
Very definitely speculation and very definitely generalized.
Most Americans I know do not have a problem discussing income or salary - provided they are comfortable with the person(s) they are having the conversation with. I have even found this to be the case among some of my European friends as well as some of my Australian friends.
What I posit is that no matter how comfortable any of us might feel about discussing our incomes in private with friends and colleagues, we do not have those same personal ties with the partly anonymous names and faces on this site, and we certainly may not feel the same way about having such information divulged to the whole world via the internet!
As many have warned us before, nothing is truly private online. Poster beware.
[Edited at 2010-05-31 09:18 GMT]
| | | | Paula Borges 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:58
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
vytautask wrote:
by the way, there's not a culture on earth where a mere question about income is considered OFFENSIVE... Unless you know someone actually has no income and just ask it to humiliate them. Intrusive it might be if you ask it someone directly IN PERSON and leave no chance to them to avoid a response. But a question given to a wide forum audience, where everyone is free to choose to respond or to completel ignore it, is neither intrusive, no offensive.
In my culture, is is considered an offensive question, yes. It's very intrusive and you wouldn't ask unless it's unavoidable. I have family in the UK and have lived there for quite a while,never heard anyone ask each other that question, unless they were work colleagues with the same exact job and employer.
So I think many cultures would find that mere question offensive really.
Also, I prefer not to know how much people make. Questions like "are translators being paid decent rates?", working conditions and whatnot interest all of us. But are my fellow translators making a lot less or a lot more than I am? How big is their apartment in Paris in comparison to Moscow? How exactly is my life going to improve by knowning such things?
| | | | | How can anyone be offended by a question not addressed to them personally? | May 31, 2010 |
Paula Borges wrote:
In my culture, is is considered an offensive question, yes. It's very intrusive and you wouldn't ask unless it's unavoidable. I have family in the UK and have lived there for quite a while,never heard anyone ask each other that question, unless they were work colleagues with the same exact job and employer.
So I think many cultures would find that mere question offensive really.
If a complete stranger or casual acquaintance asked me personally how much I earned, I might find it offensive (although I'd probably just tell them to MTOB, without actually feeling offended that they asked).
If someone on the internet asks a general question of the entire community, how on earth can that be considered as offensive? You don't like it, you don't have to hit "reply" - you don't even have to open the thread, as its intention is perfectly clear from the title.
Anyway, to answer the question (or rather not to answer it), I am not going to post my own income on a public website, as I have the usual and somewhat stupid British hangups about discussing anything to do with my money.
However, I can give a rough indication of the range of salaries reported (in 2008?) by freelance translators in Italy with a VAT no. according to the Italian Inland Revenue: IIRC (it's about a year since I saw it), it was something like EUR 30,000 to EUR 65,000 gross.
I assume but don't know for certain that these figures refer to full-time translators/interpreters reporting translation and/or interpreting as their sole source of income. I'm not at all sure I've remembered the lower figure correctly, and I don't know if the figures I saw referred to all translators with a VAT no. or excluded those on the regime di minimi (i.e. those earning under EUR 30,000 gross per year).
I do know established translators in Italy who earn under EUR 30,000 gross, but in most cases I don't know if they work full time or part time.
FWIW.
[Edited at 2010-05-31 13:53 GMT]
| | | | | Rather than prevaricating about the bush | May 31, 2010 |
as Wallace, of Wallace & Gromet fame once said, I'll say that last year, I made roughly one third of what I did at my last technical position as staff software engineer. It's enough to pay the rent and bills with something left over for incidentals and emergencies.
I look at it this way: if I were looking for work as a software engineer in the US today, I'd probably be making zero dollars per year. That's because I'd most likely be unemployed.
Occasionally I browse thr... See more as Wallace, of Wallace & Gromet fame once said, I'll say that last year, I made roughly one third of what I did at my last technical position as staff software engineer. It's enough to pay the rent and bills with something left over for incidentals and emergencies.
I look at it this way: if I were looking for work as a software engineer in the US today, I'd probably be making zero dollars per year. That's because I'd most likely be unemployed.
Occasionally I browse through the smoking wreckage of what now passes for job listings at dice.com or careerbuilder. If I see a really (really) interesting possibility, I fire off a resume. So far, each has fallen into the dreaded black hole. It's sort of like Moses sending doves out to see whether the flood has receded yet.
I hesitate to cite income numbers because, well, I want people to believe that I'm poor. Think about it. If you announce to the world how much you're worth, you're just painting a target on your posterior for every crook, con, pushy salesman, and tax collector who'd just love to shake down an overconfident schmuck flush with cash. If you're loaded, the last thing you want to do is to buy a big, gaudy pink cadillac and drive it down main street honking the horn. In this matter, my credo is: don't look for trouble; it will find you. ▲ Collapse
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Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:58
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote: Paula Borges wrote:
In my culture, is is considered an offensive question, yes. It's very intrusive and you wouldn't ask unless it's unavoidable. I have family in the UK and have lived there for quite a while,never heard anyone ask each other that question, unless they were work colleagues with the same exact job and employer.
So I think many cultures would find that mere question offensive really.
If a complete stranger or casual acquaintance asked me personally how much I earned, I might find it offensive (although I'd probably just tell them to MTOB, without actually feeling offended that they asked). If someone on the internet asks a general question of the entire community, how on earth can that be considered as offensive? You don't like it, you don't have to hit "reply" - you don't even have to open the thread, as its intention is perfectly clear from the title. Anyway, to answer the question (or rather not to answer it), I am not going to post my own income on a public website, as I have the usual and somewhat stupid British hangups about discussing anything to do with my money. However, I can give a rough indication of the range of salaries reported (in 2008?) by freelance translators in Italy with a VAT no. according to the Italian Inland Revenue: IIRC (it's about a year since I saw it), it was something like EUR 30,000 to EUR 65,000 gross. I assume but don't know for certain that these figures refer to full-time translators/interpreters reporting translation and/or interpreting as their sole source of income. I'm not at all sure I've remembered the lower figure correctly, and I don't know if the figures I saw referred to all translators with a VAT no. or excluded those on the regime di minimi (i.e. those earning under EUR 30,000 gross per year). I do know established translators in Italy who earn under EUR 30,000 gross, but in most cases I don't know if they work full time or part time. FWIW. [Edited at 2010-05-31 13:53 GMT]
I'm not saying the thread itself is offensive. I'm just replying to what he/she said:
"by the way, there's not a culture on earth where a mere question about income is considered OFFENSIVE"
[Edited at 2010-05-31 15:41 GMT]
| | | | | I heard that in the US talking about salary is quite usual | May 31, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote: vytautask wrote:
by the way, there's not a culture on earth where a mere question about income is considered OFFENSIVE... Unless you know someone actually has no income and just ask it to humiliate them. Intrusive it might be if you ask it someone directly IN PERSON and leave no chance to them to avoid a response. But a question given to a wide forum audience, where everyone is free to choose to respond or to completel ignore it, is neither intrusive, no offensive. If you are an employee at a German company, you will find a little paragraph in your contract that reads: "Discussing each other's salaries among employees is highly discouraged."
Maybe my information was not certain, but I have heard that in the US people usually tell each other how much they make a year, and usually is a question that is asked when someone is going to be hired.
It is true that in Germany is quite different...
| | | | Speranza
Local time: 04:58
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
For a thread started with a question that most people apparently would rather not answer, this one is generating replies pretty fast .
I'll contribute some indirect (and therefore possibly more reliable) evidence for the interested parties to consider. Here, Daniel Kahneman argues that "[b]elow 60,000 dollars... See more For a thread started with a question that most people apparently would rather not answer, this one is generating replies pretty fast.
I'll contribute some indirect (and therefore possibly more reliable) evidence for the interested parties to consider. Here, Daniel Kahneman argues that "[b]elow 60,000 dollars a year, people are unhappy, and they get progressively unhappier the poorer they get." Here, translators discuss how happy they are with their incomes.
One caveat: Kahneman's conclusion is based on a survey of Americans, and it remains unclear whether it applies to the rest of the world as well. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 04:58
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Nadejda Vega Cespedes wrote: For a thread started with a question that most people apparently would rather not answer, this one is generating replies pretty fast .
It's generating reactions, but very few actual replies ( to the question posed).
It is one thing to discuss general trends, which we often do on the forums, and to which many posters here have strayed, and it's a whole different thing to share the exact figures of your personal earnings.
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| Actually, you have not. | May 31, 2010 |
vytautask wrote:
good point Samuel about not hiding anything...
Indeed, several people have already disclosed their income in this forum, as I have done.
Dear "vytautask",
You have not disclosed any relevant information, as you remain anonymous.
Only after you state your personal data, like everyone else in this thread, I'll consider you have nothing to hide.
Andrés
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote: If a 100 sq. m flat is "medium" in the West, I'm not surprised that translators say they're "poor"
I am targeting 130...
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:58
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| At my company too | May 31, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
If you are an employee at a German company, you will find a little paragraph in your contract that reads: "Discussing each other's salaries among employees is highly discouraged."
When I started working for the newspaper in 2000, I was told that it is forbidden to discuss salaries with other employees, and for 5 years I did not talk about my salary or ask anyone about theirs.
But in the 6th year I realised that my colleague in the same office that did the same job as I did but who had three times as many qualifications earned the same as I did, and that the typist (!) who sat opposite me earned more than me, and that the graphic artists who just finished a 1 year certificate course could start out earning two thirds more than I did even though I had 10 years' experience and a 3-year degree-equivalent qualification cum laude. I also realised that if any new translator was appointed in that year, he'd be offered a higher salary than I got.
Why would discussing salaries be discouraged?
| | | | | Full Disclosure | Jun 1, 2010 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Why would discussing salaries be discouraged?
Haha, why on earth indeed?
As a transplant from American society, to me those contracts stating or implying that employees aren't to talk about remuneration smack of dishonesty - what are they trying to hide? What don't they want us to know or find out?
On the other hand, as I've already stated, it's still a highly personal (=private) issue to many people.
I can see why many people would be interested "about the averages and trends" in the translation business in various markets when it comes to income, especially newcomers and those wondering if their recent upswing or downswing is a fluke. But this website is likely a problematic forum to conduct such a poll on, for various reasons.
It's a shame that we don't have more frequent, accurate, and easily available statistical data to turn to, but then, maybe that's something that an interested party (the OP?) can look into setting up: An anonymous, international translators & interpreters income poll at fixed intervals.
A few (mostly outdated) references I found:
US Salary Wizard
Translator 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
In the US $38,470 $44,790 $52,198
US Career Profiles
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, interpreters and translators earned an estimated average yearly salary of $43,130 in 2008.
US Bureau of Labor Statistics
- About 26 percent of interpreters and translators are self-employed; many freelance and work in this occupation only sporadically.
- Wage and salary interpreters and translators had median hourly wages of $38,850 in May 2008. The middle 50 percent earned between $28,940 and $52,240. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $22,170, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $69,190. Individuals classified as language specialists in the Federal Government earned an average of $79,865 annually in March 2009.
The above wage data are from the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey program, unless otherwise noted. For the latest National, State, and local earnings data, visit the following pages:
27-3091 Interpreters and Translators
ATIA (Alberta, Canada) Average Income
Average yearly income of translators on a salary:
Full-time translator with a company: $61,000
Full-time translator with the government’s translation bureau: $51,000
Full-time translator in a large translation agency: $45,000
Full-time translator in a small translation agency: $38,000
Average yearly revenue of independent professionals (before any deductions for expenses):
30% of freelancers $25,000 or less
Other freelancers $61,000
Caveat: These statistics appear to date back to the 90s!
Career Prospects for Native Speakers of English (Germany, Uni-Mainz)
Incomes vary, of course. Freelance translators who work from German into English earn between €35,000 and €70,000 per annum; freelance interpreters tend to earn more (but freelancers have high overheads, and the start-up phase can be frustratingly long). An average starting salary for translators with German companies is €26,000-37,000 p.a.; with German institutions, €30,500-33,000 p.a.; and with the EU, c. €50,000 p.a.
T&I Labour Market in Australia (Macquarie University)
Rates for translation vary widely, depending on the nature of the text and the type of script required (e.g. Asian fonts usually attract a higher fee). The rate per word ranges between $0.16 to $3.00+ and translations are usually either priced per word or per 100 or 1000 words of the target language. A typical Professional-level translator earns between $25 and $45 per 100 words, with a normal workflow of 150-200 words per hour. (2005-06)
AUSIT FAQ
In the 2001 census, 89% of interpreters and 82% of translators earned between $8,300 and $78,000 p.a. The large majority interpreters (84%) and translators (71%) earned between $8,300 and $52,000. 1% of interpreters and 5% of translators earned more than $78,000 per year while 55% of interpreters and 43% of translators earned less than $26,000 per year
And finally (and depressingly):
CEATL Summary (Weblog at Rochester University)
CEATL—the Conseil Européen des Associations de Traducteurs Littéraires—decided in 2007 to do a survey of literary translators’ income across Europe...*
On page 56 of the survey, you will find the minimum, average, and maximum levels for average annual income, average gross income (minus 25% for business expenses), and average net income (minus additional 15% for social security/tax).
Even without a context, these numbers are disturbing. Using the average level of average net income, here’s what a full-time professional translator can expect to make in a variety of countries (all in euros):
Catalonia: 8,290
Croatia: 5,920
Czech Republic: 3,200
Germany: 12,530
Ireland: 28,725
Netherlands: 14,370
Norway: 20,260
Switzerland: 17,705
UK: 23,360
In isolation, these numbers look pretty bad. But looking at how these figures measure up against the average gross income in the “manufacturing and service sectors” is horrifying. Using the same countries as listed above, below is listed the percentage of a translator’s annual earnings compared to the average manufacturing/service employee:
Catalonia: 65%
Croatia: 77%
Czech Republic: 53%
Germany: 44%
Ireland: 71%
Netherlands: 61%
Norway: 62%
Switzerland: 52%
UK: 72%
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*CEATL Survey - Comparative income of literary translators in Europe
I'll leave the rest to someone else.
[Edited at 2010-06-01 05:59 GMT]
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Wage and salary interpreters and translators had median hourly wages of $38,850 in May 2008.
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Samuel Murray wrote:
Why would discussing salaries be discouraged?
Indeed why? I guess it's mostly good for the employer and mostly bad for the employees. For obvious reasons. The employer thus protects itself from being asked for a raise and from dissatisfaction of very qualified people getting less than the less qualified etc.
This is just an example of the crap employers often require of their employees. I never had it written in my contract not to disclose my salaries. I only had an unnofficial oral request from my former employer not to talk about salaries with my colleagues. We all did it anyway.
V.
| | | | | depressing indeed | Jun 1, 2010 |
Thanks, Janet,
This is some very useful stats you've mentioned. The last one, by CEATL, is the one I referred to in my original question, and it is indeed horifying. Although, it refers to literary translators (broadly defined though), not all translators. I assume (know - in the case of my country) that legal and technical translators make somewhat more that literary translators (although having done both I think translating fiction is much more difficult and time consuming and pro... See more Thanks, Janet,
This is some very useful stats you've mentioned. The last one, by CEATL, is the one I referred to in my original question, and it is indeed horifying. Although, it refers to literary translators (broadly defined though), not all translators. I assume (know - in the case of my country) that legal and technical translators make somewhat more that literary translators (although having done both I think translating fiction is much more difficult and time consuming and probably requires more talent).
Anyway, all the stats you posted doesn't encourage optimism. Neither the figures quoted by other colleagues here. I hoped to see that my western colleagues are doing much better than myself. I find, not so much. A little better, not much. ▲ Collapse
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