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What do you think about the option to post public comments and/or questions in job postings?
Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
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Mar 16, 2010

What do you think about the addition of the ability to post public comments and/or questions in job postings? Would this be a good or a bad idea?



[Edited at 2010-03-16 19:34 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-03-16 20:04 GMT]


 
Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
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Who and how would benefit from it? Mar 16, 2010

It would certainly discourage part of clients who don't want their jobs to be discussed publicly.

Cheers
S


 
Samuel Murray
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Additional channels to moan? Mar 16, 2010

Jeff Whittaker wrote:
What do you think about the addition of the ability to post public comments and/or questions in job postings? Would this be a good or a bad idea?


What purpose would this serve other than give high horsed ProZians an opportunity to share abusive comments with job posters?


 
Jeff Whittaker
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Public comments Mar 16, 2010

I was thinking that this would eliminate, or at least mitigate, moaning in the main forums.

Samuel Murray wrote:

Jeff Whittaker wrote:
What do you think about the addition of the ability to post public comments and/or questions in job postings? Would this be a good or a bad idea?


What purpose would this serve other than give high horsed ProZians an opportunity to share abusive comments with job posters?


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
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Can you expand a bit? Mar 16, 2010

Hello Jeff,

I'd like to know a bit more about what you have in mind here. What type of comments and questions do you see being discussed within the job posting? Are you talking of asking the poster for more information regarding the job, or something else?

I certainly find fairly frequently that I read a job post and say to myself "yes, but ..." - is it a technical text or general, do they want British or American English, when they say Trados do they really mean it, e
... See more
Hello Jeff,

I'd like to know a bit more about what you have in mind here. What type of comments and questions do you see being discussed within the job posting? Are you talking of asking the poster for more information regarding the job, or something else?

I certainly find fairly frequently that I read a job post and say to myself "yes, but ..." - is it a technical text or general, do they want British or American English, when they say Trados do they really mean it, etc.

On the other hand, the ones that ask for replies through the ProZ system show that they are often inundated with replies so perhaps they wouldn't have time to respond to my questions anyway.

As for us discussing within the job posting whether we think they're a good company to work for, etc - I can't see that going down very well with ProZ or the posters.

Sheila
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Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
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Requests for more information Mar 16, 2010

First and foremost, I was thinking about being able to ask questions about the specific job and having the information public so that all could benefit from the answers.

Examples: Do you need UK or American English? Can you accept Wordfast instead of Trados? What is the subject of the document? Is this an actual job or are you just quoting?

In this regard, perhaps the outsourcer could be given the option to make the question and answer public or not.

There
... See more
First and foremost, I was thinking about being able to ask questions about the specific job and having the information public so that all could benefit from the answers.

Examples: Do you need UK or American English? Can you accept Wordfast instead of Trados? What is the subject of the document? Is this an actual job or are you just quoting?

In this regard, perhaps the outsourcer could be given the option to make the question and answer public or not.

There would be no need to comment about the company's payment practices, since there is already a link to the BB and if you don't click on that first...

However (and I realize that this is not feasible at all), I think it would also be great if we could comment on certain aspects of the job (rates, deadline, etc.). Three hundred "This rate is too low" or "impossible within that time frame" posts would help those who feel the need to vent, would be completely ignored by the outsourcers who are already aware of this fact, and perhaps of use to those who are considering accepting the proposal. As always, the problem would be how to keep things civil.






[Edited at 2010-03-16 21:17 GMT]
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Roel Verschueren
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space enough to communicate Mar 16, 2010

Hi Jeff,

I fully understand your question.
I have however taken the habit of "venting" what I miss, don't like, do not want to discuss, or dislike about the job posting directly with the job poster.
I make my offer, quote my price and acceptable deadline, still encourage the poster to read my profile and CV, but I often make it very clear that e.g. his price offer is in no way in accordance to what his client wants, and will cost him much more on proofreading and readers
... See more
Hi Jeff,

I fully understand your question.
I have however taken the habit of "venting" what I miss, don't like, do not want to discuss, or dislike about the job posting directly with the job poster.
I make my offer, quote my price and acceptable deadline, still encourage the poster to read my profile and CV, but I often make it very clear that e.g. his price offer is in no way in accordance to what his client wants, and will cost him much more on proofreading and readers' aggression if he e.g. thinks he can translate a website at 0,035 euro/word.
I can be pretty aggressive, but had quite some interesting discussions with job posters via private mail afterwards.
It's a free market, if a job poster offers 0,030 euro per word for translation, he's not stupid, but knows the level of quality he will get and apparently and temporarily gets away with it.

Say what you think IN your offer, ask what you want IN your offer, no need for further bells.

Roel
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Paula Borges
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Public comments Mar 16, 2010

I think it is best to deal with the outsourcer in private, it could probably cause more hassle than it would help.

 
Edward Vreeburg
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au contraire? Mar 16, 2010

I get the feeling it would soon educate some job posters here, basic stuff like missing information on volume, subject matter, document type, required deadlines, US/UK English, would soon be addressed and with the sheer volume of comments they would quickly learn or go elsewhere...
There is of course a risk, translators could start to complain about proposed rates and start intimidating job posters, or simply swear at them (very unprofessional of course), so you can either monitor the que
... See more
I get the feeling it would soon educate some job posters here, basic stuff like missing information on volume, subject matter, document type, required deadlines, US/UK English, would soon be addressed and with the sheer volume of comments they would quickly learn or go elsewhere...
There is of course a risk, translators could start to complain about proposed rates and start intimidating job posters, or simply swear at them (very unprofessional of course), so you can either monitor the questions sent to the clients, or make sure the information requested is actually on the job posting (making those fields mandatory in the job posting and/ or checking the postings before they come online)...

You've got one thing right, there is a lot of complaining and a lot of translators are unhappy about it all, but unless something new and better is started, most people with stay with Proz...

Ed Vreeburg
Translate.ED
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apk12
apk12  Identity Verified
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well, but... Mar 17, 2010

well, but I am thinking of special job openings - those ones which frequently cause waves of shocked surprise and end up in endless post entries about the newest lowest rate offer record. a place to leave a concrete sentence, a statement, a few ironic words, visible in public, could help the community to work on something which so far seems not to be possible otherwise - a margin, an idea of acceptable rates - parting "serious" from "almost serious" from "ridiculous" offers. which could help to ... See more
well, but I am thinking of special job openings - those ones which frequently cause waves of shocked surprise and end up in endless post entries about the newest lowest rate offer record. a place to leave a concrete sentence, a statement, a few ironic words, visible in public, could help the community to work on something which so far seems not to be possible otherwise - a margin, an idea of acceptable rates - parting "serious" from "almost serious" from "ridiculous" offers. which could help to avoid proz once falling down to platforms like GAF...

so, to be honest: I like the idea.




[Edited at 2010-03-17 00:59 GMT]
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Edward Vreeburg
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Like that idea Mar 17, 2010

apk12 wrote:

well, but I am thinking of special job openings - those ones which frequently cause waves of shocked surprise and end up in endless post entries about the newest lowest rate offer record. a place to leave a concrete sentence, a statement, a few ironic words, visible in public, could help the community to work on something which so far seems not to be possible otherwise - a margin, an idea of acceptable rates - parting "serious" from "almost serious" from "ridiculous" offers.


So perhaps just a box to vote "offered rate: correct, acceptable, too low, ridiculous, "do you want fries with that?""

with a counter, just like Kudoz (agree, neutral, disagree)

?
Ed Vreeburg
Translate.ED

[Edited at 2010-03-17 08:29 GMT]


 
apk12
apk12  Identity Verified
Germany
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I dream of it... Mar 17, 2010

Edward Vreeburg wrote:

So perhaps just a box to vote "offered rate: correct, acceptable, too low, ridiculous, "do you want fries with that?" - with a counter, just like Kudoz (agree, neutral, disagree) - ?



would be great, hm?

(yes, something like "with ketchup or without?" and maybe really with a small agree/disagree-box, good idea)



[Edited at 2010-03-17 08:56 GMT]


 
Natalia Mackevich
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To start educating your clients in advance Mar 17, 2010

I think it would be more efficient to ask all appropriate standard questions well in advance, when a client/outsorcer fills the form for their job offer to be posted here at ProZ. Frankly speaking, I have never seen that form, but I suspect the form doesn't have lots of notes encouraging the clients to give as much information as possible. Are all fields mandatory? If they are, I fail to understand why some clients are so careless.
As for the rate concern, perhaps we can come up with a not
... See more
I think it would be more efficient to ask all appropriate standard questions well in advance, when a client/outsorcer fills the form for their job offer to be posted here at ProZ. Frankly speaking, I have never seen that form, but I suspect the form doesn't have lots of notes encouraging the clients to give as much information as possible. Are all fields mandatory? If they are, I fail to understand why some clients are so careless.
As for the rate concern, perhaps we can come up with a note like "If you are not ready to pay a decent rate for your text translation, don't be surprized if the final product lacks quality. Quality comes with a price, because it can only be guaranteed by education and experience of professional translators". And there should be a field for "I agree" / "I don't care" after the note.

[Редактировалось 2010-03-17 15:55 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
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Some posters need more hand-holding and gentle prodding Mar 17, 2010

Natalia Mackevich wrote:

I think it would be more efficient to ask all appropriate standard questions well in advance, when a client/outsorcer fills the form for their job offer to be posted here at ProZ. Frankly speaking, I have never seen that form, but I suspect the form doesn't have lots of notes encouraging the clients to give as much information as possible. Are all fields mandatory? If they are, I fail to understand why some clients are so careless.


I have similar concerns. Often job posters seem to be unclear how to deal with various sections.

Sometimes they want to give an example of the text and need to make it clear that although it says it's for translation, it isn't really. Samples for info and for testing need to be clearly identified.

The type of job is shown as "translating/editing/proofreading". That really isn't at all useful. We aren't expecting it to be a job in metallurgy, genetics or construction, are we? On the other hand, we need to know which of the three it is.

If it's proofreading, we then need other information such as do we need to know the source language (to check for accuracy and completeness etc) or do we simply check the translated file. Are we supposed to edit for improved style or simply to correct errors? Sometimes style changes are wanted eg "make it more marketing" - that needs to be paid for. Again, a sample for info should be strongly recommended.

Is it really clear to posters that, although they can give a budget limit for information, it's up to us to quote for the job. The present trend of saying "the rate for the job is ..." is obnoxious, insulting and entirely contrary to the business relationship we should be entering into.

I don't think everything should be obligatory, unless there's a "don't mind/don't know/unspecified" category.

Would it perhaps be possible for ProZ staff to provide us with details of what posters are presented with? It would be really useful to know whether they ignored advice and recommendations of if they weren't offered the opportunity to give all the necessary information.


 
Gina W
Gina W
United States
Local time: 04:02
Member (2003)
French to English
This is a great idea, in theory. Mar 17, 2010

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

First and foremost, I was thinking about being able to ask questions about the specific job and having the information public so that all could benefit from the answers.

Examples: Do you need UK or American English? Can you accept Wordfast instead of Trados? What is the subject of the document? Is this an actual job or are you just quoting?

In this regard, perhaps the outsourcer could be given the option to make the question and answer public or not.

There would be no need to comment about the company's payment practices, since there is already a link to the BB and if you don't click on that first...



I think this is a great idea, if it would be used for the type of comments you described here, Jeff.

Unfortunately, as we have seen with KudoZ, for example, you run the risk of getting inappropriate comments. This also would in turn cause extra work for the site moderators/staff.

However, perhaps in this case inappropriate comments might not always have a negative overall result anyway.;)


 
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