| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Kudoz abuse or rotten apples? Thread poster: Edward Vreeburg
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Amy Duncan (X) 
Brazil
Local time: 22:45
Portuguese to English
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| I don't think so... | Jul 29, 2009 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
I think that ProZ should monetize the KudoZ system. This would eliminate most of the problems.
Askers would pay a non-refundable $1.00 per question.
[Edited at 2009-07-29 14:09 GMT]
We're already paying for membership (which should include site features such as KudoZ, and does), and besides, who cares if somebody asks a zillion questions and has no business translating the text they're working on? I figure it's none of my business, as it is also none of my business that people answer this person's zillion questions.
| | | | | learning curve | Jul 29, 2009 |
To Jeff - I certainly agree that there are more ways to learn and find terms than using the internet and perhaps some people depend too much on other translators and internet at their finger tips rather than investing and researching... a good corpus of texts (bilingual or not) in the subject matter would greatly help a new translator.
To Edward - yes, over use of the KudoZ system is perhaps a little too much, which perhaps just confirms that new translators are becoming dependent o... See more To Jeff - I certainly agree that there are more ways to learn and find terms than using the internet and perhaps some people depend too much on other translators and internet at their finger tips rather than investing and researching... a good corpus of texts (bilingual or not) in the subject matter would greatly help a new translator.
To Edward - yes, over use of the KudoZ system is perhaps a little too much, which perhaps just confirms that new translators are becoming dependent on the KudoZ system.
But I have seen regular users (askers and answerers) on the Italian>English KudoZ who seem happy to answer questions, it can also be a hobby or personal translation development for the answerers who can think about the term and then use their responses and others' for their own professional development. I'm not so sure charging for it would be a good idea as you would penalise those who do not over-use the KudoZ system and who take an equal share in asking and answering. I think the percentage of translators who overuse the system is quite low...
My thoughts... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 04:45
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Yes, I support the idea | Jul 29, 2009 |
1 unite of money to be paid for each question would be ok. It should be 1 Euro, because most translators live in Europe (about 70 %). But instead of giving the money to the answerer the full amount should go to charity.
Before asking questions you would have to put up an account and pay in some sum, let's say for 10 questions. The same already applies for using Skype etc.
Regards
Heinrich
| | | | | The easiest way to get the job done??? X0( | Jul 29, 2009 |
I've recently become a member of Kudoz, and, to tell the truth, I've had my email inbox FLOODED with language questions (maaaany of them from the SAME person or people) which, with some dedication, some hours spent with your legs stuck to the legs of your chair (so to speak) and a quarter of brains ;0D, would be solved without having to pester your colleagues. I'm having a hard time trying to translate data sheets of pests from Spanish into English and, believe me, nothing can take away the sati... See more I've recently become a member of Kudoz, and, to tell the truth, I've had my email inbox FLOODED with language questions (maaaany of them from the SAME person or people) which, with some dedication, some hours spent with your legs stuck to the legs of your chair (so to speak) and a quarter of brains ;0D, would be solved without having to pester your colleagues. I'm having a hard time trying to translate data sheets of pests from Spanish into English and, believe me, nothing can take away the satisfaction I feel when I do my own research, solve the problem by myself and fill my own glossary (which I intend to share when finished). I agree with some of you in the sense that it would be possible to recover the original document by cutting and pasting. It's no wonder then than the translation profession is being denigrated not only by "outsiders", but also, sadly, by these very (?) translators. Sorry if I'm harsh on this, but I love my profession and I hate to see that it's being banalized, even from those who should honor their vocation. ▲ Collapse
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| No plans to require payment for KudoZ participation | Jul 29, 2009 |
Hi all,
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
I think that ProZ should monetize the KudoZ system. This would eliminate most of the problems.
There are not currently any plans to require additional payment for participation in KudoZ.
However, you still have the options to view KudoZ questions according to your KudoZ search preferences and receive notifications depending on your KudoZ notifications settings.
Also, if you become convinced that a certain member is not likely to ask questions that are of interest to you, you may opt to filter notifications of that member's questions (regardless of your notification settings.).
Hope this explains.
Regards,
Lucia
| | | | | Thank heavens | Jul 30, 2009 |
For common sense, Lucy.
In what way does it affect me as a translator and member of Proz if some other translator is asking lots of questions?
I simply do not get kudoz question by email and when I have time to answer them do it directly on the site.
It is all very well to get so snotty about beginner translators or translators who accept something that it turns out they do not have the terminology for, but there are lots of perfectly justifiable reasons f... See more For common sense, Lucy.
In what way does it affect me as a translator and member of Proz if some other translator is asking lots of questions?
I simply do not get kudoz question by email and when I have time to answer them do it directly on the site.
It is all very well to get so snotty about beginner translators or translators who accept something that it turns out they do not have the terminology for, but there are lots of perfectly justifiable reasons for that to happen and translating is a learning process.
I really don't think expert translators have anything to worry about. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Cheater or lame | Jul 30, 2009 |
Amy Duncan wrote:
We're already paying for membership (which should include site features such as KudoZ, and does), and besides, who cares if somebody asks a zillion questions and has no business translating the text they're working on? I figure it's none of my business, as it is also none of my business that people answer this person's zillion questions.
Indeed. What I know is that if someone needs to ask 20 questions for a 5-page document... this person is clearly cheating. As we say in Spain, you catch a lier sooner than you catch a lame. Interesting work will always revert to better translators who won't jeopardise the translation. So I don't really mind if an asker asks so much... and receives lame answers.
Generally, I only take the time to answer if I feel that the asker is doing his/her homework and has made an effort to solve the problem (which is evidenced by a good explanation in the question).
| | | | | Kudoz, not quite a learning process | Jul 30, 2009 |
Lesley Clarke wrote:
It is all very well to get so snotty about beginner translators or translators who accept something that it turns out they do not have the terminology for, but there are lots of perfectly justifiable reasons for that to happen and translating is a learning process.
OK, but when we did not have Kudoz, we used other websites to ask for help and help was very good. Of course you had to be polite to your fellow translators in those sites... and politeness is a rare thing to see in Kudoz lately. It's sort of sad.
Kudoz allows you to make quick questions, which in exchange receive quick, mostly undocumented and unexplained answers which don't look like good help to me...
To me, when a translator accepts a job that is clearly outside his/her abilities, he/she should:
A) Be honest to the client and report that he/she is not qualified to do the job.
or B) Do research, check expert/specific websites in the two languages, read books on the matter, go to the library for more information, take the time to talk to the experts or, if we are adventurous and like to take things to the extreme, even check one of those thick books with lots of words printed inside called dictionaries.
This whole Kudoz-will-save-me approach is not only damaging for the profession as a whole, but quite simply does not help the translator because nothing is learned in the process.
[Edited at 2009-07-30 05:03 GMT]
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Harald Roald
Spain
Local time: 03:45
English to Norwegian
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| so if you dont like questions....dont answer them | Jul 30, 2009 |
its that easy , really. No one is forced to reply to Kudoz questions. However, I really enjoy digging into other peoples complex material if I have the time (or already know the answer) - and I also get amazing help when I am stuck. I see the Kudoz questions as a great benefit of being a member of Proz - both answering and asking quetions.
| | | | Gianni Pastore
Italy
Local time: 03:45
Member (2007)
English to Italian
| I certainly don't, but... | Jul 30, 2009 |
Amy Duncan wrote:
...who cares if somebody asks a zillion questions and has no business translating the text they're working on? I figure it's none of my business, as it is also none of my business that people answer this person's zillion questions.
...the person asking a zillion questions is surely working at ridiculous rate because unexperienced (I could not imagine someone paying top dollars to someone who hasn't a clue on what he/she's talking about).
He/she won the job because of that rate, so helping him/her doesn't this means that we (the answerers) are silently endorsing that rate, even though we rant about it on forums like this?
Gianni
[Edited at 2009-07-30 06:38 GMT]
| | | | | Helping Kudoz free riders -> bad business long-term | Jul 30, 2009 |
Gianni Pastore wrote:
He/she won the job because of that rate, so helping him/her doesn't this means that we (the answerers) are silently endorsing that rate, even though we rant about it on forums like this?
I completely agree. And that's the main reason why I don't help such people: I would be part of the cheating and would be damaging my future business.
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 03:45
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lingua 5B wrote:
Yes, but what if the asker is a $0.01 translator? How can he or she afford $1 for a simple question then?
Well, if they want to compete with their LOW rates and still get FREE help from HIGH PRICE translators, I think this is only FAIR.
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Buck
Netherlands
Local time: 03:45
Dutch to English
| personal choice | Jul 30, 2009 |
I, too, become slightly annoyed when I see a slew of questions asked on one day by the same person. And it's even more irritating when the answer could easily be found with some effort (dictionaries, for starters, and then there is the Internet, etc.). I simply don't bother answering such questions. Why would I give answers to someone who has obviously taken on a text they are not qualified to translate? I recently saw several questions asked by a (non-paying) member in my language pair, Dutch-E... See more I, too, become slightly annoyed when I see a slew of questions asked on one day by the same person. And it's even more irritating when the answer could easily be found with some effort (dictionaries, for starters, and then there is the Internet, etc.). I simply don't bother answering such questions. Why would I give answers to someone who has obviously taken on a text they are not qualified to translate? I recently saw several questions asked by a (non-paying) member in my language pair, Dutch-English, and checked out the profile. The individual has asked over 100 questions and answered NONE. That is abuse, in my opinion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 03:45
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Of course I only answer questions when I have the time, in the beginning I did receive a lot of questions in my inbox, and to be honest I did not know many answers, but over the last 2 years I keep seeing the same people asking lots of questions which could be found in dictionairies and other glosssaries or talking with experts.
Some of them almost never answer any questsions, with scores of 300 asked - 3 answered.
And close hem without grading, all the stuff we hate about Kud... See more Of course I only answer questions when I have the time, in the beginning I did receive a lot of questions in my inbox, and to be honest I did not know many answers, but over the last 2 years I keep seeing the same people asking lots of questions which could be found in dictionairies and other glosssaries or talking with experts.
Some of them almost never answer any questsions, with scores of 300 asked - 3 answered.
And close hem without grading, all the stuff we hate about Kudoz!
Why should I want to help a 0,01 $ translator, who claims to be fast, cheap, realiable and is an expert in anything from nuclear science to flower arranging? (and believe me, I have seen some of the work they deliver, by checking the references they give on their profile - - -it's not very good !)
If a fee is charged per question (either going to charity or returned to an answerer) balance can be restored, or it will weed out cheap / crap translators.
In addition it might restore interest of the whole Proz community, to have only real translators (including those starting in the profession), asking questions on which they have spend at least some time and doing their own research (by checking a dictionairy, etc) or even providing they own suggestion of what they think might be the righr answer).
I hear many people say they only answer questions when they have the time, but if instead of 20-30 questions a day, I receive only 5 I might think about signing up for email notification again.- which would enhance the value of the service. (maybe not me personally, but a good percentage of translators).
Well, thank you for your suggestions, I think the site owners might get some good ideas from this.
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Ed ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thanks for the laughs! | Jul 30, 2009 |
Edward Vreeburg wrote:
If a fee is charged per question (either going to charity or returned to an answerer) balance can be restored, or it will weed out cheap / crap translators.
Sorry Edward, but this whole idea of charging for questions is plain naïve. Proz.com systematically ignore any idea that --in their view-- might cause a reduction in the flow of questions. Their main goal is to keep the flow of questions, which --even with very poor quality- keeps feeding the Kudoz open glossary that is used by Google, for instance.
Measures to improve the quality of the questions or to give extra recognition to good answers are completely disregarded by Proz.com's staff. Poll suggestions to measure acceptance of these proposals are scrapped. They only say they will look into it and then nothing happens. Every now and then they change this or that little thing, add rather useless/unused features, etc., but the cancer in Kudoz is never treated because they prefer to have lots of meat there, even if neoplastic tissue.
Do you think that charging for a question would be even considered by Proz? If they even read this, they will probably laugh at it in their meetings after systematically ignoring so many member suggestions about Kudoz!!
[Edited at 2009-07-30 08:12 GMT]
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