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Low-priced job posted on ProZ.com
Thread poster: Lietta Warren-Granato
Kristian Madar
Kristian Madar  Identity Verified
Slovakia
Local time: 18:01
English to Slovak
+ ...
I did reply eventually Feb 12, 2009

Stating that this rate is unacceptable and stating my own rate.

Wouln't you agree, that a 500 word job (consisting of translation and 2 x own proofreading) amy take up to 2 hours in order to guarantee high quality?
Then, if we take this thesis a total of 12 Eur would mean that the poster is in breach of the National minimal Wage Act of Ireland. (which is I believe 7 Euros).

Furhter, not to mention the point that this post is an insult for our profession, the poste
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Stating that this rate is unacceptable and stating my own rate.

Wouln't you agree, that a 500 word job (consisting of translation and 2 x own proofreading) amy take up to 2 hours in order to guarantee high quality?
Then, if we take this thesis a total of 12 Eur would mean that the poster is in breach of the National minimal Wage Act of Ireland. (which is I believe 7 Euros).

Furhter, not to mention the point that this post is an insult for our profession, the poster will probably assign the job to a college student with a profile on proz.com.

Can this be considered acceptable on a portal, where professionals pay their fair amount of money to be registered as members?

Would it not be fair to ask proz.com as the official body organising this webpage to take the extra mile and remove such a post which:

1. insults its members

2. constitutes or implies disregard of a national minimal wage act.
????

I believe that we all should ask ourselves these questions and act accordingly.

PS: I have written to the poster that their post may result in them being reported to the appropriate Irish authorities.

Now I am going to browse the net and find out how can I achieve this.
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Paola Dentifrigi
Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:01
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
god, what a typo! Feb 12, 2009

Lietta Warren-Granato wrote:


YOU MEANT 'APPEALING', I HOPE...


Or a lapsus



 
Angela Dickson (X)
Angela Dickson (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:01
French to English
+ ...
minimum wage Feb 12, 2009

Kristian Madar wrote:

Then, if we take this thesis a total of 12 Eur would mean that the poster is in breach of the National minimal Wage Act of Ireland. (which is I believe 7 Euros).



I am no expert on Irish law but I would be very surprised if the Minimum Wage Act applied to freelancers, or those seeking to contract a freelancer to do a particular task.


 
Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Aniello Scognamiglio (X)  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:01
English to German
+ ...
It's getting boring Feb 12, 2009

What about this thread? Extremely recommendable!!!
http://www.proz.com/forum/being_independent/592-show_me_your_rates_and_i\ll_tell_you_what_kind_of_translator_you_are.html

Another good read:
<
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What about this thread? Extremely recommendable!!!
http://www.proz.com/forum/being_independent/592-show_me_your_rates_and_i\ll_tell_you_what_kind_of_translator_you_are.html

Another good read:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/126314-we_must_quote_in_low_price_jobs_with_our_prices.html

[Edited at 2009-02-12 17:30 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-02-12 18:14 GMT]
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Taija Hyvönen
Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 19:01
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Ah, this is already priceless... Feb 12, 2009

The lowest rate I have been offered was 2,5 eurocents (I replied to a job posting with no rate specified on another site, not ProZ). Now, I basically told them I don't put my coffee cup down for less than 10 cents and they offered to give me 4 cents. This haggling led to my polite decline.

Immediately (I mean in minutes) after this they posted the same job again.

Now, a couple of weeks later I see the same company post a job, which looks identical. here in ProZ. Except
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The lowest rate I have been offered was 2,5 eurocents (I replied to a job posting with no rate specified on another site, not ProZ). Now, I basically told them I don't put my coffee cup down for less than 10 cents and they offered to give me 4 cents. This haggling led to my polite decline.

Immediately (I mean in minutes) after this they posted the same job again.

Now, a couple of weeks later I see the same company post a job, which looks identical. here in ProZ. Except now they put a rate - 5 cents.

Keep raising the rate when you can't get anyone to do it, dear 2,5-cent-agency - I'm still here
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Paola Dentifrigi
Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:01
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
I agree with you there Feb 12, 2009



But the job posting situation @ Proz is appalling (yes!).


 
Eric Hahn (X)
Eric Hahn (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:01
French to German
+ ...
Globalization Feb 12, 2009

Lietta Warren-Granato wrote:

I just wanted to point out that a job offer advertised here on ProZ for a small project (500 words) from English to Italian, for 0,025 EU per word, has received 159 replies.


It's not sad, but rididulous, I would rather become pizzaioli

I saw a German tanslator willing to work for 0,3 EU per word.
But this is economically feasible if you live in Argentinia for example.

That's what globalization is about ...



[Edited at 2009-02-12 17:28 GMT]


 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:01
French to German
+ ...
Père fouettard Feb 12, 2009

Eric Hahn wrote:

That's what globalization is about ...



[Edited at 2009-02-12 17:28 GMT]


Yes, nowadays Globalisation is the substitute for the Père fouettard! (EN native speakers, feel free to translate...)

Laurent K.


 
M&T (X)
M&T (X)

Local time: 13:01
English to Romanian
+ ...
i saw that too Feb 12, 2009

It must be the same job I saw...but guess what? so far there are 180 quotes and I bet lots of them are not quotes about how bad their price is. Last week was another one , even worse, that was paying 0.016 US dollars/word, so this one is actually offering a fortune)).

 
Peter Bouillon
Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:01
French to German
+ ...
Cheap jobs are often icky; how 2 identify worthwhile invitations for tender; how 2 participate Feb 12, 2009

Lietta Warren-Granato wrote:
I just wanted to point out that a job offer advertised here on ProZ for a small project (500 words) from English to Italian, for 0,025 EU per word, has received 159 replies.I think this is very, very sad.



Don't mourn after particularly cheap jobs. Quite often, particularly cheap jobs are particularly icky to do, too. There are several reasons for this:

  • The agency that offers such jobs often is as “cheapo” as the translators they try to attract. They quote cheap to the end customers on projects that more reputable agencies shun for good reasons.
  • This means that the demands they get from their end customers are often particularly unreasonable. These demands are then passed through to the translators.
  • Due to low markup and therefore low income, jobs are bound to be badly prepared and badly thought through. This makes working on them difficult.
  • Good agencies come at a price, in the same way as good translators come at a price. Thus there's a chance that a “cheapo” agency is lacking in competence somewhere - resulting in bad co-operation with their translators and bad co-ordination with the end customer.


(BTW, the above is an excerpt of a presentation about negotiating rates I held in a ProZ conference some time ago. In German, I'm afraid.)

I don't know anything about that particular job posted for tender, and I don't want to comment on it specifically either, but probably your best policy would be wishing that “lucky” colleague that got the job all the best with earning EUR 12.50 and then forgetting all about it.

Invitations for tender do exist on ProZ that are worth participating in, albeit somewhat rarely. They are easy to single out by reading the job specification carefully. The tenderer should either have taken care in selecting the preconditions for participation so that they optimally fit the job at hand, or s/he should have carefully described the text to be translated, or both. Whenever the poster seems to have taken trouble preparing the tender, it is probably worth participating in.

Also, most good invitations for tender don't contain the phrase “quote your best rate”.

Don't bid in tenders where your guts tell you that the tenderer probably hasn't taken much trouble in preparing them.

If you do want to participate, take your time to write a cover letter carefully. You don't gain points by presenting a cover letter with spelling mistakes that seems to be generic and that contains all of six words.

In the tenderer's cockpit, quotes are not sorted by time of arrival, so you don't gain much by quoting at record speed. To the contrary: The tenderer will see the time you were sent the invitation and also see the time you sent your quote. If the tenderer notices you replied within seconds of receiving the invitation, s/he will find it hard to take you seriously.

The way to impress a tenderer (or for that matter, any reputable agency) is by showing that you in particular are specially suited to do the specific job at hand. Reputable agencies take great pains to build up long-standing customer relationships and they try to uphold them for the very long term; they really hate anything happening to their customer relationships. Thus getting a good translation that will impress the end client is more important to the agency than being quoted cheap rates.

There's a lot to say on the subject of negotiating one's services with agencies, but this will have to do for now.

Peter

[Bearbeitet am 2009-02-13 00:07 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2009-02-13 08:24 GMT]


 
Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:01
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Truly appalling Feb 12, 2009

Lietta Warren-Granato wrote:

Paola Dentifrigi wrote:



You need an appalling web site if you want to stay in business.






YOU MEANT 'APPEALING', I HOPE...



An appalling web site is what they will get at that rate.


 
Yossi Rozenman
Yossi Rozenman  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:01
Member (2006)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Hear Hear! Feb 13, 2009

Peter Bouillon wrote:

Reputable agencies take great pains to build up long-standing customer relationships and they try to uphold them for the very long term; they really hate anything happening to their customer relationships. Thus getting a good translation that will impress the end client is more important to the agency than being quoted cheap rates.



 
Anne Lozac'h
Anne Lozac'h
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:01
English to French
At 0.03 usd per word I was still too expensive.... Feb 13, 2009

Last year I quoted for a "low budget" project and they were asking for our "best offer".
As a test, I offered 0.03 usd to check what they would say...
I received an e-mail saying that my rate was too high and they gave the job to a translator with cheaper rates....


 
Peter Bouillon
Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:01
French to German
+ ...
Don't sell yourself on the cheap Feb 13, 2009

Anne Lozac'h wrote:
At 0.03 usd per word I was still too expensive …


Do not sell yourself with “cheapness” as your main argument. There will always be someone willing to do the work for even less money, and if “cheapness” is your main selling proposition, you are at that competitor's mercy.

Peter


 
M&T (X)
M&T (X)

Local time: 13:01
English to Romanian
+ ...
low payed job Feb 13, 2009

I come with a correction to my previous message... the price was 0.016 euro cents /word. Or as they say a maximum of 150 euros for 9000 words...

 
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Low-priced job posted on ProZ.com







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