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Turkish to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Folklore / proverb
Turkish term or phrase:Şerde hayır vardır.
This is how I'm going to judge the best answer:
Does the expression in English proposed as answer give me approximately the same feeling as the original expression in Turkish does? I am a native speaker of Turkish.
The proverb is one that is very well known and commonly used by Turkish folks, especially those that do indeed tend to value traditions.
** said to show that even a very bad situation must have some good results. (Kaynak : Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
** used to say that every problem brings an advantage for someone. (Kaynak : Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English)
** no problem is so bad that it does not bring some advantage to sb. (Kaynak : Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary )
** something that you say which means most bad things that happen have a good result for someone. ( Kaynak : Cambridge International Dictionary of Idioms )
** People say "it's an ill wind" when they want to point out that unpleasant events and difficult situations often have unexpected good effects. (Kaynak : Collins COBUILD Dictionary of Idioms )
There does not appear to be in English language, an equally good folkloric equivalent of the expression in Turkish; "şerde hayır vardır".
Perhaps that state of affairs is best reflected by the answer from TANER GODE, i.e. "Cher the Higher War There".
In fact this was seconded by a native speaker of English.
However, I am not very happy with the style in which that answer was presented, hence I won't select it. Besides, that answer would not make a good entry. So I look for a next best.
Of the well established expressions in English that have been suggested here, the expression "it is an ill wind that blows nobody good", meaning a wind that does not not do any good to any body anywhere any time simply cannot exist, comes closest to Turkish expression "şerde hayır vardır". But it doesn't come close enough and also it is too long, too complicated, even confusing, and too subtle -- so much so that even the native speakers of English appear to be confused by it (but then I saw a claim to the effect that this was a Danish proverb anyway).
I'll award one Kudoz point to this answer. That would allow me, in case I do indeed float the question again -- I may need six months or maybe forever to recover from this one-, to say "I'm looking for an answer better than ill wind answer".
I thank you all for your participation.
Hence I shall close, if I can, without awarding
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Looks like no winners, through it is not yet a final decision.
14:02 Feb 7, 2007
The answer I thought to be best for a while proves to be an improvised one.
I have a good mind to select: "Cher the Higher War There" -- at least one native speaker, who is a native speaker in every sense of the word and whose proficiency in Turkish as a second language I truly appreciate, agrees with it.
I need to go out a take a bit of fresh air now and I'll close this question when I return.
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
We got a problem, Houston!
13:31 Feb 7, 2007
I fed "every trouble hides a fortune" to Google, which returned one result only: Buray's Kudoz answer!
I'll take a break and think about this.
A few responses:
TANER GODE: If there is any ado around here, I didn't make it all by myself, did I?
Nizamettin Yiğit: Intersection of religion and folklore being much smaller than their union means religion and folklore and have many more different elements that they have common elements -- intersection / union thing is a very elementary set theory expression; but I forgot that many people forget a good chunck of their math once they are out of school; sorry.
Mr. Yenigelen. From all the discussion as well as the exquisite level of English that I have been witnessing here, I have felt the strong urge to kindly ask you: What exactly are you looking for? Is this not "much ado about nothing". Please forgive me...
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Response to latest comments:
11:34 Feb 7, 2007
Nizamettin Yigit: Right. Religion does figure in folklore, of course, but their intersection is much smaller than their union.
Tim Drayton: Yes, Tim, context is important. At the very beginning, it didn't occur to me to establish a context because the expression is so commonly used. Then from the responses I identified contexts at individual / personal level and philosophical level. It looks like I'm going to close this question with Buray winner vis-a-vis individual context, best-reflecting the dialectic implication (this is also in part answer to your question / comments, Mehmet), and float a second question for the same expression in a philosophical context. When I do that, I'll try to describe a context. And any opinion is welcome in that respect.
Mehmet Hascan: As I have already pointed out at several points above, best answer, as of this moment, in individual / personal context, is Buray's answer, for best reflecting the dialectic implication I find in the expression "şerde hayır vardır". And that best answer is also reasonably satisfactory. For philosophical context, we don't have any satisfactory answer. Hence I consider floating the question again after closing this one. I'll also consider not waiting full second 24 hours, but we are nearly there, I believe.
To be honest , I am not sure what exactly you're looking for. Both idioms ''it’s an ill wind (that blows nobody any good) & every cloud has a silver lining" are the closest equivalent to Turkish saying ''Her işte bir hayır vardır''.
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
C'mon Mehmet, even "ill wind" is better than that!?
10:17 Feb 7, 2007
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Now, Tim, you know the joke they posted about translators the other day in the forum, don't you?
It would be very useful if you provided some context. Obviously if this proverb is discussed in a serious philosophical treatise, for example, the most suitable translation will be very different from that required for, say, a comedy script.
Bence halısınız. Ben Kurani kaynağı girerken cevabın ille de öyle olduğu veya olması gerektiinden ziyade hem hayır hem de şer kelimelerinin Kuran kelimesiolduğu, Türkçe olmadığı, bu nedenle her ne kadar bizim folklorde yer alsa da aslına gitmekte fayda
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Thanks to hard work done by Nizamttin Yiğit, I really don't have to wait 24 hours, nevertheless I will:
04:31 Feb 7, 2007
To me the expression "şerde hayır vardır" has meanings in personal and philosophical contexts, however, with dialectic implications in both contexts. In a personal context, i.e., in a context of a person facing problems, hardships, etc., dialectic implication is best reflected by Buray's answer, so far.
I am more interested in an answer in the philosophical context. The only answer proposed in a philophical context, in this round, is Nizamettin's answer, and I don't agree with it, because it rejects the dialectic implication.
I do agree with Nizammetin that the expression "there is good in evil" has been used to justify propositions of a rather diverse range of teachings of life styles or world views, whereas the Turkish expression "şerde hayır vardır" does not favor any such teachings, it merely advises against prejudice and haste in judgment.
I do think, however, that the Turkish expression "şerde hayır vardır" does indeed have a meaning in a philosphical context, not with a history of scholarly study or discussion, but a meaning, a convention, that has developed and matured through ages of collective experience in good and bad times. And that meaning, I think, does happen to carry a dialectic implication. As such, I also believe that the meaning of the expression "şerde hayır vardır" in Turkish folklore is not at all limited to any Qu'ranic context.
This, I think, is basically the background against which I shall float the question "şerde hayır vardır - Part II", unless a very good answer that might come in the next 12 hours or so makes that unnecessary.
The winner I have in mind won't change unless other answers are proposed in the next 24 hours.
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Of the three answers kindly provided so far, namely by Buray, Berker, and Hascan;
19:03 Feb 6, 2007
I know the one I consider best. Hint: It is not the one that happens to be most peer-popular at this time; it is the one that runs closest to what yours truly has suggested in his modest capacity: "There is good in evil."
With that note, I shall wait for another 24 hours. If that does not change the winner I have in mind now, I shall close the question and very possibly float it again as part two.
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Here is another possible answer:
23:23 Feb 5, 2007
"There is good in evil."
It looks like translating proverbs is sort of like translating poems -- you can have a number of different and about equally good answers; it is fun; it is also educational, I believe...
Malik Beytek (X)
ASKER
Question is definitely open to native speakers of Turkish. I say so as...
21:45 Feb 5, 2007
... the owner of this micro project in translation. And I won't be surprised if ultimately the best answer to this particularly selected question comes from a native speaker of Turkish.
Nevertheless, at some point, I hope, native speakers of English would come into the loop and chip in, in the way of saying, perhaps, "ah, now I know what you mean, but here is perhaps a better way of saying that in English...".
With deficient competence in target language, you might go with the wrong solution to your communication problem. With deficient competence in source language, however, you might be going with a perfect solution to the wrong problem.