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una mujer de tertulia

English translation: (a wonderful) conversationalist

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:una mujer de tertulia
English translation:(a wonderful) conversationalist
Entered by: Kate Major Patience

14:27 Feb 17, 2011
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama / San Sebastián Film Festival
Spanish term or phrase: una mujer de tertulia
¿Y cómo llegaron estas películas al festival si estaban prohibidas?

(GASCA) Todo fue un montaje que hice con una gran amiga, Laura Betti, mito y musa de Bellochio a Bertolucci, de Pasolini, de Fellini... Era una mujer de tertulia soberbia. Entonces las películas, muchas llegaron desde Italia en burro o en mula, no se en qué, por la frontera. Pasaron por Gaintxurizketa.

I am not sure whether they are saying that she had the gift of the gab, that she was chatty, a socialite, or something else.
All opinions welcome on this one.

UK Eng.
Thanks in advance.
Kate Major Patience
Spain
Local time: 18:41
(a wonderful) conversationalist
Explanation:
I would be tempted to add: "great company". Or some variant.

I don't think it means a socialite. A socialite is a person who is prominent in fashionable society, who spends much of his/her term going to smart parties and providing copy for gossip columnists: someone like Paris Hilton.

But a "mujer de tertulia" means a woman who excels at conversation, who is in her element in tertulias, which, before the word degenerated into meaning a vapid chat show, meant a cultured, quite often learned, albeit informal, gathering, often held in a café, where the object was to talk about something, not just idle chat but real conversation, developing and exchanging ideas. I think "mujer de tertulia" and "hombre de tertulia" imply first and foremost skill in the art of conversation. Not just chatty or glib, but actually having something to say. And in company: tertulias are essentially collective. So "great company" would be along the right lines.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2011-02-17 15:17:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Es un hombre de tertulia, amigo de sus amigos, gran conversador de lo humano y lo divino."
http://www.estadio.latinowebs.com/photo2_1.html

"Pessoa es ya un hombre de tertulia, un hombre que discute, que ironiza"
http://www.losandes.com.pe/Cultural/20100808/39414.html

"Mercedes, con un carácter y personalidad tan independiente, con la cultura como posesión más valiosa, tenía las ideas tan claras y una ética tan inquebrantable como su mala leche ante lo absurdo y banal. Mujer de tertulia y debate"
http://oriolserra.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 18:41
Grading comment
Thank you everyone for your interesting and helpful answers and comments. Indispensible help on a tight deadline. Thanks again. :)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6Socialite
SilviaInt
4 +6(a wonderful) conversationalist
Charles Davis
4 +1a great ranconteur
Amy Moreno
3huge sociocultural esteem
James A. Walsh
3 -1socialite and siren
Marian Vieyra
Summary of reference entries provided
tertulia
Denise DeVries

  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
Socialite


Explanation:
I would say they meant she was a very sociable person, and had many connections because of that

SilviaInt
Local time: 17:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anthony Mazzorana (X)
2 mins
  -> Thanks Anthony
agree  philgoddard: www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=tertulia
9 mins
  -> Thanks, Phil
agree  Evans (X)
31 mins
  -> Thanks, Gilla
agree  Catherine Gilsenan
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Catherine
agree  Muriel Vasconcellos: Lowercase "s". A definition would have helped. I had to check it out because I thought it implied wealth and position in society, but the main meaning seems to be that the person gets around--entertains and is entertained.
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Muriel for your comments. Yes, that is the meaning that I have always used in the UK
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: this is 1977, pre vapid "celebrities" like Paris Hilton et al, so works
9 hrs
  -> thanks, yes, I agree, it fits in the period
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
socialite and siren


Explanation:
Purely because socialite is a rather pejorative term for someone who has nothing else to do but socialise, which, according to her obituary, is far from the truth. Singer, actress, muse...socialite and siren


    Reference: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/laura-betti-550...
Marian Vieyra
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  philgoddard: This may be what the Independent says, but the Spanish doesn't say she was dangerously seductive. And I think it's clear from the context that socialite doesn't have negative connotations here.
5 mins
  -> I merely thought the Spanish could be expanded given what is known about her. I didn't add dangerous or seductive. Siren is positive.
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44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
(a wonderful) conversationalist


Explanation:
I would be tempted to add: "great company". Or some variant.

I don't think it means a socialite. A socialite is a person who is prominent in fashionable society, who spends much of his/her term going to smart parties and providing copy for gossip columnists: someone like Paris Hilton.

But a "mujer de tertulia" means a woman who excels at conversation, who is in her element in tertulias, which, before the word degenerated into meaning a vapid chat show, meant a cultured, quite often learned, albeit informal, gathering, often held in a café, where the object was to talk about something, not just idle chat but real conversation, developing and exchanging ideas. I think "mujer de tertulia" and "hombre de tertulia" imply first and foremost skill in the art of conversation. Not just chatty or glib, but actually having something to say. And in company: tertulias are essentially collective. So "great company" would be along the right lines.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2011-02-17 15:17:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Es un hombre de tertulia, amigo de sus amigos, gran conversador de lo humano y lo divino."
http://www.estadio.latinowebs.com/photo2_1.html

"Pessoa es ya un hombre de tertulia, un hombre que discute, que ironiza"
http://www.losandes.com.pe/Cultural/20100808/39414.html

"Mercedes, con un carácter y personalidad tan independiente, con la cultura como posesión más valiosa, tenía las ideas tan claras y una ética tan inquebrantable como su mala leche ante lo absurdo y banal. Mujer de tertulia y debate"
http://oriolserra.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 18:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 99
Grading comment
Thank you everyone for your interesting and helpful answers and comments. Indispensible help on a tight deadline. Thanks again. :)
Notes to answerer
Asker: Totally agree. That's great Charles - thanks. :)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Evans (X): this is nice too, great conversationalist
23 mins
  -> Many thanks, Gilla
agree  Cristina Talavera: and with interpretation of socialite
52 mins
  -> Thanks very much, Cristina
agree  MedTrans&More
57 mins
  -> Many thanks, MedTrans&More
agree  LedaB
1 hr
  -> Thanks very much, Leda
agree  franglish: Absolutely.
5 hrs
  -> Many thanks, franglish
agree  Rosa Paredes: Absolutely!
5 hrs
  -> Muchas gracias, Rosa
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
una mujer de tertulia
huge sociocultural esteem


Explanation:
I see your dilemma with 'tertulia'... and totally agree with Charles that Laura Betti was far more than just a 'socialite'.

Perhaps this might work?



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-17 16:37:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or even 'influence' instead of 'esteem'.

Example sentence(s):
  • Era una <u>mujer de tertulia soberbia</u>
  • She was a <u>woman of/with huge sociocultural esteem</u>
James A. Walsh
Spain
Local time: 18:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 36
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
a great ranconteur


Explanation:
I like "conversationalist" (from the suggestion above) but I think "raconteur" may also fit in the context. I suppose using words with French roots can also entail a little more glamour, which seems appropriate given the circles she moved in as an actress and muse.


Amy Moreno
Local time: 17:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jennifer Levey: I guess she might herself have been happier with 'raconteuse'.
2 hrs
  -> I thought "raconteur" was like "actor" and could apply to both men and women. It seems like I was wrong! In that case, yes, "raconteuse" would be more appropriate.
agree  Maria Romero: A
7 hrs
  -> Gracias Maria McMahon
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Reference comments


3 hrs
Reference: tertulia

Reference information:
A tertulia is a salon or intellectual gathering. A "mujer de tertulia" would be surrounded by artists and writers, not in the same circles as a socialite.


    Reference: http://tertuliablog.wordpress.com/
Denise DeVries
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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