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this is from DECISION No202 of 17 March 2005 on model forms necessary for the application of Council Regulations (EEC)No1408/71 and (EEC) No 574/72 (E001, E101...)
"For the purpose of Slovak institutions, give the Slovak birth number if applicable."
Hannah I understand "national" to mean that everyone in the country has it (national health service, national service [vojna], national debt). What you say about the country identifier would make it an "international number" wouldn't it...? I saw rodne cislo on one "international" document (driver's licence maybe) translated as "citizen's number" - sounds pretty horrible in English but still. Maybe the only thing for it is to introduce one number for everyone - everywhere, for every purpose (social security, passport, ID card, birth certificate) and have a global word for it - every country would have to have the same name and format for it (apart from the Hungarians). Would save us translators a world of trouble.
Hannah Geiger (X)
United States
15:47 Dec 14, 2012
What I am trying to indicate, and probably not very successfully, is my belief that a national ID number becomes such only if you put the country first and the specific number behind it, i.e. national insurance number, social security number, rodné číslo, atd, thus looking like this: UK 12345, US5678, CZ9192, thus giving an idea that this person can be identified in this and that country under this and that number. Without the Country ID a number is not a national ID number to me.
Hannah Geiger (X)
United States
15:16 Dec 14, 2012
the Czech numbers are very specific, you can actually read from them the day, month and year of birth, even if one is a male or a female, I think, and the three digit number after the slash is also specific as to an "event", I believe, perhaps somebody knows what it means . Since I am registered for taxes in the US, on my translator's invoices (not being a company) I put USplus my social security number, from which, by the way, one cannot immediately read my birthday, only federal officials can.
Funnily enough, on my Czech passport my 'rodné číslo' is under RODNÉ ČÍSLO /PERSONAL ID/ NO PERSONNEL
Which is exactly why you want to use something clearly understandable, which unfortunately birth registration number is not, it is very vague, whereas national identity/identification number is clear and leaves no doubt as to its meaning, native English speaker or not
What if we simply do not know, where target audience lives (very common if a translator works for an agency), or even, as Hannah correctly mentioned, there is no specific target audience, the text is intended for global publishing (also quite common in our globalized world)? When I translate into Slovak I agree with principle you have mentioned, but English texts can (and often are) intended for countries with official language different from English. So, I am trying to find generally understandable term. My two cents.
nie je len s.s. #, ale je to cislo, podla ktoreho vas najdu kdekolvek v USA. ! Pozor, ak platite ovsem dane (you file income tax) Kdekolvek sa pohnem, vyplnim ziadost, do zamestania, v banke, preukaz do kniznice, kreditnu kartu a pod. , tam pytaju S.S. #, teda som v systeme. Popri tom ziadaju cislo soferaku (drivers licence ), to je vsak dobre len pre stat v ktorom zijem. Odstahujem sa niekde inde, neplatim dane, voda sa za mnou zatvorila. Birth ID, je len pre registraciu v county = okres, statu v ktorom zijem. Formular, zo Socialnej poistovne S.R. ma kolonku v Potvredni o ziti kde musim napisat moje rodne cislo = Citizen's Card Number Pre USA preklad najblizsi termin bude National ID #., napriek hore uvedenemu a ak sa nemylim tak to bolo aj v diskusii v predoslom Proz.com
Hannah Geiger (X)
United States
18:28 Dec 13, 2012
Yes, I agree, some are in use and are really bad; but you see, the US Social Security Number is, to me, just that, a s.s.no. So if I call it a national identification number, it may be in some broader, international sense, or am I not making sense...anyway....
I think the point is that different countries have different names for what is ultimately a national identity number. A rose is a rose by any other name, so to speak, and translation should always be aimed at the target audience and not at what the source non-native speaker of the target language *thinks* it should be. Translation should 'best suit the needs' of the target reader. So many translated terms from Slovak/Czech into English are so wrong but they've been in use for so long no one wants to change them. I always go with what the target audience needs so I was just adding my suggestion to the lot. Notice my confidence level, I knew I'd run into a wall with this suggestion, it's so out of the box :)
Hannah Geiger (X)
United States
18:14 Dec 13, 2012
Regarding the national identification number, I do believe that it is misunderstood. Even Wikipedia writes that such number, i.e. national identification number is, in the Czech Republic, "rodné číslo" etc.
Further, perhaps we should not forget that the Czechs are the masters here of what goes or does not, so if they themselves had not liked the currently used translations, I doubt very much that they would be used today. What I mean to say is that they do not need the British or Americans telling them how to translate it, but give it the meaning that they feel best suits their needs. After all, all these government agencies send out forms for the Czechs living overseas regarding pensions, restitutions, work documents, and they have to understand the terms they put on documents that are in two, sometimes three languages.
peer agreement (net): +4