Dayet - beri, ne dayet - begi.

English translation: Take it easy, and if it's easy, take it!

07:15 Dec 11, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
Russian term or phrase: Dayet - beri, ne dayet - begi.
Obviously, to do with a woman.
Obviously, a cheap pun on the famous saying. Have fun!
Emil Tubinshlak
Canada
Local time: 05:17
English translation:Take it easy, and if it's easy, take it!
Explanation:
Although it's not direct, it contains the "if it's good don't question it" aspect like "dayut beri" along with the sexual connotation of "ne dayet - begi."

What comes before and after this phrase in the piece you are working on?

I also thought of, "Either she puts out, or she gets put out!"

Ick, what a repulsive concept.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-13 01:05:02 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Wait, I had another thought!

Let her blow you, but don\'t let her snow you!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-13 01:05:44 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Send it to me privately, I\'m dying to know! dzaccaro(at)hotmail.com

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 674 days (2004-10-15 16:41:56 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

This whole ensuing conversation is slightly ridiculous. First of all, I am female and as such do not agree with the sentiments of the source text. (One might also have deduced that from my statement above \"Ick, what a repulsive concept.\") However, that does not change the fact that periodically one is called upon to translate things one does not necessarily agree with. The option is of course there to refuse the job.

The personal tone of attacks is completely inappropriate. Statements such as \"I do draw your attention to the nature of the conversation ensued afterwards between the Asker and the Answerer. It took on a hostile turn...That conversation between Asker and Answerer has nothing to do with our profession, the profession is a pretext to exercise something else. Maybe the participants of that dialog are themselves unaware of it.\" belong more in the realm of psychoanalyis than of translation discussion, and are completely unsupported by the actual dialogue. People do not come here to be psychoanalyzed, or to have their \"social consciousness\" raised. They come here to translate.

As such, I think the Moderator should be more concerned with the unjustified and personal nature of the complainant\'s comments here, rather than with the honest attempts to provide helpful translations by proz.com members.
Selected response from:

Deborah Hoffman
Local time: 05:17
Grading comment
Thanks - both are pretty good. Actually, I've come up with something of my own, but I won't mention for fear of being attacked by feminists - I did not make up this saying - all I am doing is translating it.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1Response to your responses
Montefiore
5 +1Take the money and run/Quit while you're ahead
Montefiore
5"Have fun" - is it really asking for help with translation?
xeni (X)
5A Comment and a Warning
Montefiore
3 +2If you can't win her, then bin her
Libero_Lang_Lab
3Take it easy, and if it's easy, take it!
Deborah Hoffman
3If she gives in - make it, if she doesn't - make off!
Nikita Kobrin
5 -2In response to Montefiore
Oyra


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
If she gives in - make it, if she doesn't - make off!


Explanation:
:-)

Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 12:17
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 244
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
If you can't win her, then bin her


Explanation:
If she won't give you the time, it's time to give in.

Love her or leave her (that's not quite the meaning of the Russian is it? But it does actually exist as a known expression - the others I just made up!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-11 14:01:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If she won\'t cut you some slack, hit the road Jack

Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:17
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1214

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Oyra
11 hrs

agree  Oleg Pashuk (X): the last one. Dan, You've gained some weight lately (judging from your new picture:-))
1 day 8 hrs
  -> well, you winston you lose some
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Take the money and run/Quit while you're ahead


Explanation:
(It's not so obvious to me that it has to do with a woman).

Don't push your luck -
that's another one

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-11 20:16:20 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It\'s funny how they squash innocent quesitons, but this mysogynistic one made it through!

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 02:17
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in pair: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xeni (X): к сожалению, это-таки о женщине - "даёт - бери, не даёт - беги", на мой взгляд грубо и не смешно, но мужики забавляются :)
2 hrs
  -> согласна с тем, что грубо и не смешно, но в вначале этого контекста не было, а с выражением этим я не знакома (давно уехала из того "нежного" мира)

agree  Deborah Hoffman: I do agree with your point though that in an ideal world, this is not how we measure a woman's worth. Sadly, I think we may never get there.
674 days
  -> thank you, and you are right...and what we will do when we get there, is also a big question:)
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1 day 20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
A Comment and a Warning


Explanation:
Whether you call me a feminist, or not, I do not care. However, I find this particular question, but especially its translation, highly offensive. I am not easily offended, but I am surprised by the attitudes of certain participants.

By the way, Mr. dzaccaro, there is NO such expression as the one you are proposing in your main answer, and what you provide below should have been squashed by the moderator.

These are mysogynist, hate statements and sayings. If in their place there were derogatory terms used that normally apply to races and ethnicities, they would have been squashed right away.

I am sending a copy of this to the moderator of this site.

Women out there, why do you tolerate this?

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 02:17
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in pair: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Teresa Pearce
6 hrs
  -> thank you, Teresa

disagree  Interpreter (X): Рина, человек переводит книгу. Если он не может проконсультироваться с коллегами, то с кем же еще?
12 hrs
  -> правильно, я согласна

neutral  Oyra: Dear Montefiore, I'm afraid that in this case we're not really men and women, we are LANGUAGUE PROFESSIONALS. :-) We don't always like or agree with the texts we get to translate... This isn't an opinion. It's just a discussion over a saying. I think.
14 hrs
  -> согласна

neutral  zmejka: герои лит. произведений, какие нам иногда доводится переводить, зачастую позволяют тебе высказывания, какие переводчик себе бы в страшном сне не представил, но не принимать же их теперь на свой счёт?..
14 hrs
  -> агри

agree  xeni (X): that's just a traditional way of Russian women to tolerate male chauvinism. I guess most of them don't even notice it:)
15 hrs
  -> thank you, Ksenia

disagree  Deborah Hoffman: First, I am not Mr., but Ms. Second, young people in the U.S. do use this expression. Third, translating misogynist expressions does not make one a misogynist.
672 days
  -> I agree with most of the things you are saying here:) except for the fourth statement - but I'll let it go at that
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2 days 11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
In response to Montefiore


Explanation:
I don't really see a problem. There are dozens of sayings and proverbs out there which may appear offensive to some people yet would seem just a figure of speech to others. I think that the moderators are too strict already, at least considering that most of KudoZ participants (in the Ru-En/ En-Ru pairs, at least) seem to be intelligent people, and so far there's no danger of this site becoming a translating place for obsceneties. I would strongly suggest to forget about the whole affair (though I don't see anything serious, again, to be frank) and not provoke the moderators to be even more paranoid about the things we're trying to translate than they already are (and this is NOT an offense towards the moderators; paranoia is something a normal moderator should be driven by ;-)).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-13 18:23:20 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

By the way, would you be so cross if the question was initially posted by a woman? :-)

Oyra
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:17
PRO pts in pair: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Montefiore: By the way, would you be so cross of the question was posted by an American about the Russians (if you are a Russian), and if it were derogatory towards the Russians?
1 hr
  -> I would not. :-) I think that if a person means to offend someone, he can well write the someone a personal letter. I don't take offence from any statement not directed at me personally or put like "I hate you women/ Russians".

disagree  xeni (X): It is the tone of the discussion that is insulting. And some disclaimer on the Asker's part wouldn't hurt - like "this is a quotation from a book, blah-blah-blah"
1 hr
  -> I agree that a disclaimer wouldn't hurt at all. But I think that the Asker got carried away and didnn't really mean the tone to sound insulting to anybody. I might be wrong, of course, but I always hope for the best...
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2 days 11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Response to your responses


Explanation:
Dear all:

I don't have any objections against the question itself (see my attempt at translation above). I do draw your attention to the nature of the conversation ensued afterwards between the Asker and the Answerer. It took on a hostile turn. I cannot persuade anyone to share my personal feelings, and if it were a few years ago, I may have responded in a similar manner to someone like me who may have expressed their indignation at the way women as gender were treated. It often takes a very personal encounter to put things in perspective, so that one acquires social consciousness.

That conversation between Asker and Answerer has nothing to do with our profession, the profession is a pretext to exercise something else. Maybe the participants of that dialog are themselves unaware of it.

I know that I am outnumbered here, but I also know that I am right. I don't care if any of you want to defend those who contribute to the ubiquitous verbal abuse of women that has become rather mundane. For many years, they thought slavery was normal, and it was mundane then, too.

I do not need your support, and I am not the type to impose my opinions on others, not usually so. As to the moderator's role, he hasn't responded to my e-mail yet.

Not to worry, no one is going to get in "official" trouble. I was seeking fairness and understanding in all the wrong places, and at the wrong time. But the time will be right some day.

Thanks for listening.

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 02:17
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in pair: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xeni (X): I agree about the attitude of the male members of this discussion. BTW there's nothing wrong about being a feminist, but the Asker implied the negative meaning even in this word. I guess Russian women are way too tolerant and do not even notice it.
7 mins
  -> Absolutely, you've said it, Ksenia! I ddidn't want to stereotype Russian women, but I guess it's often truer than for American women

agree  Larissa Boutrimova: С одной стороны есть переводческая задача, которую нужно решить. Это понятно и не вызывает возражений. Однако, кажется, что Аскер и некоторые отвечающие в своих вариантах перевода (с готовностью?) превзошли пошлость оригинала.
43 mins
  -> спасибо, Лариса, и Вы совершенно правы

disagree  Deborah Hoffman: "That conversation between Asker and Answerer has nothing to do with our profession, the profession is a pretext to exercise something else." Huh? Read my statement, Ick what a repulsive concept (the saying expresses).
671 days
  -> I read your statement; I understand your reaction
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2 days 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
"Have fun" - is it really asking for help with translation?


Explanation:
It would have certainly been much better if instead of writing "Have fun!" in his question the Asker had written some sort of disclaimer, like "this is a quotation from the book I'm translating", or article, whatever. As I have already mentioned in my comments, it is not the phrase itself that is insulting, it is the tone of this male discussion. It could never have happened in real life in the U.S.A. - in cases like this the author would be afraid of being sued, and he would sure lose in court too.

xeni (X)
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 142

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Larissa Boutrimova
5 mins
  -> спасибо, Лариса, я рада, что поторопилась со своими стереотипами "русских женщин" :)

agree  Montefiore: Indeed! You bet they would have lost; it's about time to embrace changes for those who, perhaps, don't even realise that they've been buying into their own demise - because women eventually stop loving men who hate them?
1 hr
  -> Well, as we can see here, tastes differ :)

disagree  Interpreter (X): 'Have fun" означало: попробуйте перевести, те которые тут профессионалы или вообще умеют переводить. вот и все.
3 hrs
  -> Oh, did it? That's a totally new meaning of "have fun" for me!

disagree  Deborah Hoffman: The author would be protected in a U.S. court by the First Amendment, unless it was in the context of discrimination in the workplace, university, or other statutory exception to the Constitutional rule.
671 days
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1 day 17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Take it easy, and if it's easy, take it!


Explanation:
Although it's not direct, it contains the "if it's good don't question it" aspect like "dayut beri" along with the sexual connotation of "ne dayet - begi."

What comes before and after this phrase in the piece you are working on?

I also thought of, "Either she puts out, or she gets put out!"

Ick, what a repulsive concept.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-13 01:05:02 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Wait, I had another thought!

Let her blow you, but don\'t let her snow you!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-13 01:05:44 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Send it to me privately, I\'m dying to know! dzaccaro(at)hotmail.com

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 674 days (2004-10-15 16:41:56 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

This whole ensuing conversation is slightly ridiculous. First of all, I am female and as such do not agree with the sentiments of the source text. (One might also have deduced that from my statement above \"Ick, what a repulsive concept.\") However, that does not change the fact that periodically one is called upon to translate things one does not necessarily agree with. The option is of course there to refuse the job.

The personal tone of attacks is completely inappropriate. Statements such as \"I do draw your attention to the nature of the conversation ensued afterwards between the Asker and the Answerer. It took on a hostile turn...That conversation between Asker and Answerer has nothing to do with our profession, the profession is a pretext to exercise something else. Maybe the participants of that dialog are themselves unaware of it.\" belong more in the realm of psychoanalyis than of translation discussion, and are completely unsupported by the actual dialogue. People do not come here to be psychoanalyzed, or to have their \"social consciousness\" raised. They come here to translate.

As such, I think the Moderator should be more concerned with the unjustified and personal nature of the complainant\'s comments here, rather than with the honest attempts to provide helpful translations by proz.com members.

Deborah Hoffman
Local time: 05:17
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 403
Grading comment
Thanks - both are pretty good. Actually, I've come up with something of my own, but I won't mention for fear of being attacked by feminists - I did not make up this saying - all I am doing is translating it.
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