pelican sau babiţă

English translation: the dolphin or the porpoise

18:47 Aug 5, 2009
Romanian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Zoology
Romanian term or phrase: pelican sau babiţă
The entire sentence is:
"imblanzind enormul cu o impasabila ironie trasa in fire din ce in ce mai abstracte care duceau la enigma morala cuprinsa in alternativa 'pelican sau babita.'" The context has to do with the art of drawing, specifically the difficulty of interpreting a certain artist's work
Emil Niculescu
United States
Local time: 19:56
English translation:the dolphin or the porpoise
Explanation:
ca sa pastram nota - nu e chestie cauzala ( oul sau gaina) ci chestie e cal sau equus genus :)
dragut
Selected response from:

Anca Nitu
Local time: 22:56
Grading comment
Thank you very much. This is the best answer, although others were also very close.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3the dolphin or the porpoise
Anca Nitu
4The Pelican or the Pelicaniform/The Pelican or the Booby!
Nina Iordache
3to be or to be- sketch or draw
Adriana Crihan
3pelican and pelecanus
Mihaela Ghiuzeli
3you say tomato, I say tomato
Ivona Tillett
1 +1the chicken and the egg
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Summary of reference entries provided
Urmuz
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
pelican=babiţă
adinag

Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the chicken and the egg


Explanation:
A stab in the dark... Thanks, Emil.

Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Israel
Local time: 04:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RomanianRomanian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Valentina Meyer: that's how I see it too
3 mins
  -> Thanks, Valentina!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The Pelican or the Pelicaniform/The Pelican or the Booby!


Explanation:
O alta idee, tot un shot in the dark, evident...

Pentru Booby:

http://www.answers.com/topic/booby

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-08-05 20:46:24 GMT)
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Mai cred si ca o nota de subsol cu explicatia acestei morale sui generis a fabulei lui Urmuz se impune, altfel se pierde aroma contextuala.

Nina Iordache
Romania
Local time: 04:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
to be or to be- sketch or draw


Explanation:
absurd and futile power of choice

Adriana Crihan
Romania
Local time: 04:56
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the dolphin or the porpoise


Explanation:
ca sa pastram nota - nu e chestie cauzala ( oul sau gaina) ci chestie e cal sau equus genus :)
dragut

Anca Nitu
Local time: 22:56
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you very much. This is the best answer, although others were also very close.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sandra & Kenneth Grossman: Definitely. Everybody knows it and it preserves its flavor of irony and randomness. Bravo.
6 hrs
  -> thanks, muchly appreciated :):):):)

agree  George C.
9 hrs
  -> multumesc

agree  Tradeuro Language Services
17 hrs
  -> multumesc
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pelican and pelecanus


Explanation:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessio...
"La meme Jeanette autrement coiffee" pentru a face pictura absconsa si impenetrabila;

Mihaela Ghiuzeli
Local time: 22:56
Native speaker of: Romanian
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23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
you say tomato, I say tomato


Explanation:
inca o sugestie


    Reference: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=698070
Ivona Tillett
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:56
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
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Reference comments


35 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Urmuz

Reference information:
Probabil e o referinta la poetul absurd Urmuz.


URMUZ

Fabula
Cica niste cronicari
Duceau lipsa de salvari
Si-au rugat pe Rapaport
Sa le dea un pasaport.
Rapaport cel dragalas
Juca un carambolaj
Nestiind ca – Aristotel
Nu vazuse ostropel.
"Galileu! O, Galileu!"
Striga el atunci mereu
" Nu mai trage de urechi
Ale tale ghete vechi "
Galileu scoate-o sinteza
Din redingota franceza,
Si exclama: " Sarafoff,
Serveste-te de cartof !"

Morala
Pelicanul sau babita.


"Raspunsul lui Urmuz - ce pare a fi spiritul tutelar al acestei epopei dâmbovitene ar putea fi: pelicanul sau babita. Ceea ce în limbaj pescaresc inseamna totuna."

Panorama editorialelor din 9 februarie http://tinyurl.com/nk39ou

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Note added at 35 mins (2009-08-05 19:23:43 GMT)
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"poetul absurdului"

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-08-05 19:53:19 GMT)
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This poem was studied (and probably still is) in all the schools. I assume that's how "pelicanul and babita" became generally known.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-08-05 19:59:44 GMT)
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I think the "moral dilemma" between "pelican and babita" is a choice between alternatives that become more and more abstract and difficult to perceive, or a choice that is no choice - in an ironic sort of way.

The first thing that comes to mind is "the chicken and the egg"- but not quite. Maybe as a starting point.

Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Israel
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RomanianRomanian
Note to reference poster
Asker: Dear Sangro, you're absolutely right about that, it is a reference to Urmuz. But how would you translate this in English? Was Urmuz the first one to come up with it?

Asker: I really liked your last note, Sangro. You should post this an answer.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Valentina Meyer
56 mins
  -> Multumesc, Valentina!
neutral  Mihaela Ghiuzeli: Good discussion ! However, "chicken or the egg" is the unsolvable problem surrounding the origin rather than a metaphor of two seemingly different things which are actually alike or similar.
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Mihaela! Indeed, the chicken and the egg is a very imperfect solution, being a sort of "perpetuum mobile" same choice rather than a choice of identical absurd alternatives. It's just a starting point, intended to stimulate other people's ideas.
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19 mins peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: pelican=babiţă

Reference information:
http://ro.bab.la/dictionar/romana-engleza/babiţă.html


http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:PuvJ7te6WDIJ:cazare-delt...

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Note added at 23 minute (2009-08-05 19:11:30 GMT)
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pelican

Sinonime

* babiţă, (reg.) babă, baboşă, batcă, guşată, (înv.) nesăturat

http://ro.wiktionary.org/wiki/pelican


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Note added at 31 minute (2009-08-05 19:19:24 GMT)
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these two nouns are synonyms standing for pelican

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Note added at 1 oră (2009-08-05 20:39:03 GMT)
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What about form vs content/substance????.....

Art is form and content.

"Art is form and content" means: All art consists of these two things.

Form means (1) the elements of art, (2) the principles of design and (3) the actual, physical materials that the artist has used. Form, in this context, is concrete and fairly easily described - no matter which piece of art is under scrutiny.

Suppose you've written: "One half of all art is form. Here is how Goya's The Shootings of May Third, 1808 fits in." You would then go on to provide details about how Goya used color, value, space and line (elements of art). He used balance, contrast, emphasis and proportion (principles of design). He composed the aforementioned elements and principles on canvas, using brushes and oil paints (the physical part of "form").

The example just given employed a work of Western art, and was written in English. It doesn't take much of a leap in imagination, though, to understand that the concepts behind "form" could be applied to any piece of art, created anywhere on earth, at any time, using any language. With that, we have successfully covered "form".

Content, now, gets a little more tricky. "Content" is idea-based and means (1) what the artist meant to portray, (2) what the artist actually did portray and (3) how we react, as individuals, to both the intended and actual messages.

Additionally, "content" includes ways in which a work was influenced - by religion, or politics, or society in general, or even the artist's use of hallucinogenic substances - at the time it was created. All of these factors, together, make up the "content" side of art.

http://arthistory.about.com/cs/reference/f/what_is_art.htm

adinag
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
Note to reference poster
Asker: Hello Adinag, thank you for the dictionary definition. But I'm more interested in understanding this Romanian expression and translating it into idiomatic English.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Mihaela Ghiuzeli: sunt sinonime; arata ca babele si probabil asa au capatat numele
1 min
  -> multumesc:)
agree  RODICA CIOBANU
22 hrs
  -> multumesc:)
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