Labor voluptasque dissimillima natura,societate quadam inter se naturali sunt iu

21:00 Nov 4, 2010 

now I see the dependance of "naturali" on "societate".

Your rendering is very apt and even more precise than the one of kaydee's link, though that one too is of course quite nice.

19:44 Nov 4, 2010 

is an adjective modifying "societate"

This passage is a little bit clearer if you look at the preceding sentence:

nec opera sine emolumento nec emolumentum ferme sine inpensa opera est. Labor voluptasque....

I would translate the 2 sentences like this:

"There is neither work without reward, nor reward, generally, without work expended. Work and pleasure, though dissimilar by nature, have become joined together by a sort of natural association."


I makes a certain sense to put this on a sundial, because then all the hours of the day -- work and pleasure -- are accounted for.

(Note to asker: that should be AB urbe condita, not ad.)

17:16 Nov 4, 2010 

You don't say which word you looked up. - But I think it must hinge about "naturli". I am a little puzzled by that form as I would rather have expected "naturaliter".

But I would like to know how you or OLD get "purpose" in this quote - or generally - from "naturalis".

16:30 Nov 4, 2010 

Roland, my source for my translation is the Oxford Latin Dictionary s.v. Are you arguing from the context in Livy, or merely from the cited translations? I didn't look up the passage, I freely admit. But it is generally accepted that the OLD is a distinct improvement, based on rereading of the sources, over the 19th-century lexicography that A & G had at their disposal. I was reading the Latin, not citing a published source.

If you have more to say here, perhaps we should continue this conversation privately.

15:42 Nov 4, 2010 

"purpose" or even "common purpose" for "union" might sound plausible, but it is not warranted by source. - Here are quotes for "union" and "alliance" and I saw a similar translation into De.

12:27 Nov 4, 2010 

@ Roland: thanks; seems pretty useful.

@ Chiara: I'm happy to hear that.

@ Stephen: couldn't really go into such detail, for my Latin has become rather rusty (hence the link, and not a first-hand translation!).

12:24 Nov 4, 2010 

For what it's worth, Allen & Greenough (287.3) gives "labor and delight are bound together by a certain natural alliance."

11:56 Nov 4, 2010 

I would only suggest that "common purpose" instead of "union" in the cited translation is an improvement in both accuracy and clear sense.

11:56 Nov 4, 2010 

Kaydee: thank you very much. It's very useful and I found my translation.

@Roland: sorry, it was probably a mistake copyng and pasting the text. Thanks anyway

11:46 Nov 4, 2010 

@ Chira -

Putting in a quotation like this it would be good to write out completely. - At the end it is not "iu" but "iuncta". And that is a difference.

11:25 Nov 4, 2010 

Have a look here: http://books.google.gr/books?id=DdtTI74awmwC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA...