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  3. Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs

לאום

20:24 Jan 15, 2009
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Errant question

Hebrew to English translations [PRO]
Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs
Hebrew term or phrase: לאום
ethnic group לפי המילון יש לתרגם כ
nationality או ethnic group - האם יש לתרגם
בתעודת פטירה?י
Ruth Rubina
United States
Local time: 21:29


Summary of answers provided
4 +6Nationality
Suzan Chin
4Ethnic group or ethnicity
Mollie Milesi
Summary of reference entries provided
Is Judaism a race, a nationality, a religion or what?
Textpertise

  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
Nationality


Explanation:
לאום is ationality

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Note added at 5 mins (2009-01-15 20:29:32 GMT)
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Sorry, nationality.

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Note added at 15 mins (2009-01-15 20:39:31 GMT)
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In the birth certificates that I translate they always indicate Jewish for 'religion' and 'nationality' although nationality should be Israeli. Ethnic group would be עדה

Suzan Chin
United States
Local time: 21:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in HebrewHebrew
Notes to answerer
Asker: So - how come the answer is Jewish? Jewish is a religion - or if a Jew is born outside of Israel this still will be his nationality?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Textpertise: Nationality is correct translation. Askers point is philosophical, not linguistic. Many have asked this question before.
12 mins
  -> Thank you!
agree  Robert Forstag
28 mins
  -> Thank you!
agree  elli_fischer: Judaism is a nationality, ethnic group, religion, etc. The idea of relating to Judaism as one of those elements but not another only arose in the 19th Century
32 mins
  -> Thank you!
agree  Zehavit Ehre: Jewish can be both religion and nationality. Whether you're religious or not, if you're Jewish you belong to the Jewish nation no matter where you live.
39 mins
  -> Thank you!
agree  Ron Armon
8 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ron!
agree  Lingopro
22 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ethnic group or ethnicity


Explanation:
I am going to have to disagree with the other posters here.

Assuming you are translating an Israeli ID or birth certificate, לאום refers to the person's ethnic group within Israeli society. Practically speaking, this means that some Israeli nationals are 'Druze', 'Arab', Jewish, Christian as their ethnic group.

לאום also means 'people', 'nation'.

The use of לאום is highly contested, and has been removed from newly issued IDs. 'Eda' is a different matter, and is not used on IDs or certificates. It may be used in surveys, sociology, etc. as a classification, however.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-15 21:48:01 GMT)
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So, on the certificate you are translating,use 'ethnic group'. It may not be very PC elsewhere, however!

Mollie Milesi
Israel
Local time: 04:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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Reference comments


1 hr
Reference: Is Judaism a race, a nationality, a religion or what?

Reference information:
Because we participate in Kudoz for fun :-) and for our continuing education, and to support my statement that this is a philosophical question (because no statement on Kudoz goes unchallenged most of the time), if you have time, here are a few links to the discussion on the philosophical question. If any two of them agree, I shall be surprised:

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish.
http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudaism/a/beingjewish.htm

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

And so, if you allow me to use some Yiddish in this forum, rather than "Fardreh mir mein kop" (Drive myself crazy), I would prefer to spend my time translating - but the odd diversion keeps me sane. Have fun!

Textpertise
United Kingdom
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
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