This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Die europäische Perspektive der Westbalkanländer bleibt ein sehr wichtiges Theme
English translation: (The) EU accession prospects for the (countries of the) Western Balkans (will) continue to be ...
08:20 Apr 30, 2019
German to English translations [PRO] Marketing - Government / Politics
German term or phrase:Die europäische Perspektive der Westbalkanländer bleibt ein sehr wichtiges Theme
The technokatisches Undeutsch of the kind you find when writing about NGOs and governments can be a problem at times. A real bubble indeed, with its own forms of expression. Perhaps someone can help decipher it
Die europäische Perspektive der Westbalkanländer bleibt ein sehr wichtiges Themenfeld, das uns alle noch viele Jahre intensiv beschäftigen wird.
European perspective? Closer integration with the EU? Given that the West Balkans is a part of Europe.
Some people may have extended this definition to include the CIS countries and, lately, the UK. But besides the fact that the Soviet Union fell apart over a generation (i.e., 30 years) ago, all of these countries are in Europe.
If we ignore the Brexit debate for a moment, you may find that most ENS pages about the topic add a word and say "further integration into Europe."
It's pretty clear that what they mean by this is not that we need to redraw the world map (that's a job for the British...) but integrate certain countries into the EU.
Adrian may have a point about a few European institutions not being firmly related to the Union, though he should also know that neither Switzerland nor Norway are free to do what they want: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eea-no...
What, then, is meant by Europe here if not an enlargement of the continent? The goal is to politicize the language. As soon as people think Europe and the EU are synonyms, it doesn't matter anymore what you write because there's no longer a point to it.
Or as Twitter users would say: Reuse does not imply endorsement.
I think you misunderstand me. Integration has three different meanings: "1 the combining of two or more things so that they work together effectively integration of the integration of data from other surveys 2 when people become part of a group or society and are accepted by them integration into The family unit is supported by its integration into a wider social network. 3 the process of getting people of different races to live and work together instead of separately → assimilation problems of racial integration" https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/integration
Only the third one is relevant in this context. You don't say integration into race, since adjective + integration is used to say different groups of people (I don't like the R word) are being brought closer together. If you rephrase, you'd be saying that different groups are integrated into society, so you'd need a third word the expression doesn't include.
Likewise, European integration is about closer ties between countries in Europe. If you want to say "integration into Europe," the only legitimate object of that sentence could be Russia, some of which lies in Europe.
I wouldn't say integration into race because it doesn't make much sense. But if I think about it, I realize I don't arrive at that conclusion through reverse logic. I don't like 'integration into race", not because it's illogical but because it's not idiomatic, nobody uses it that way. By contrast, "integration into Europe" may offend your logical sensibilities but I am not the first one to use it that way. There will always be expressions that defy formal logic, but if they become widely used, they enter the language anyway (Wait for the day when I proclaim it's okay to say "should have went" because I got used to hearing it on the street, hehe.)
Same in Switzerland, by the way: "Mit Serbien und Montenegro führt die EU bereits Beitrittsverhandlungen. Auch für die Länder Albanien, Nordmazedonien, Bosnien-Herzegowina und Kosovo wird eine europäische Perspektive in Aussicht gestellt." https://www.eda.admin.ch/dea/de/home/eu/europaeische-union/e...
Also, Michael, while I can understand your point, I'm not very fond of "integration into Europe"--last time I looked, the Western Balkans were still part of this continent.
Grammatically, European is an adjective just like racial, as in racial integration. But you wouldn't say integration into race, now would you?
RE "...for instance like Björn V., is able to tell the difference between EU and European law..."
Not going to bother replying to what Americans would call flim-flam artistry. Don't know why I've defended some of your previous comments.
Of course, you need background knowledge. Otherwise, go look for another job. We could have discussed whether you need to reflect the author's bias in the translation or what words to choose for "enge Beziehungen" (not approach, though), but that is not where this debate is heading.
Well... "Europäische Perspektive für die Westbalkan-Staaten Klar sei, 'dass all diese Länder eine klare Beitrittsperspektive zur Europäischen Union haben', sagte die Bundeskanzlerin zum Abschluss des Westbalkan-Gipfels in Sofia." https://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/bkin-de/angela-merkel/termink...
Perspektive = prospects, outlook or opportunities. Simple as that (dunno why Ramey called it "esoteric") and, in this context, it's about the EU. Period.
As the last link shows, though, we will need to get away from accession to something like: "...the independent states of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia sought closer ties with the countries of the EU." https://www.britannica.com/place/Balkans/Communism
Martin M. makes the - and my own - point cogently. A European perspective, as in Steffen's argument, indeed needs background knowledge, but that assumes the author/ess him- or herself is using unambiguous language, is otherwise omniscient vs. omnipotent (a distinction a body-building English 'wordsmith' I ,once worked with was unable to make) and, for instance like Björn V., is able to tell the difference between EU and European law - clue: the EU (with its European Council > europäischer Rat) vs. EFTA/EEA and the Council of Europe > der Europarat). Again, the vast (ignorant: Austrian commentator: 'dumme') majority of Brexiteers in the UK is or are unable to.
... because he is obviously in the best position to choose the translation that he considers most appropriate in the case at hand. On a related note, in the KudoZ forum, there will always be some sort of "information asymmetry" between us, as answerers and commenters, and the asker, unless he/she comes up with the complete context. However, the references cited by Björn make it abundantly clear, at least to me, that a "narrower" solution is called for because of the EU "subtext".
Regarding your more general question, whether or not to choose a narrower or more abstract interpretation would inevitably depend on the context given in the source text as well as on the terminology/linguistic means available in the target language, and translation obviously relies on background knowledge just as much as on what we can actually see in front of our eyes.
I happily concede that the author may have had EU membership in mind as a sort of final form of European integration. That's a correct interpretation, then. But an interpretation is still an interpretation and the term itself doesn't make that specific. There's no linguistic equivalence between "Europäische Perspektive" and "EU accession". In other words, why make the English translation more narrow than the German term unless we have no other options?
But that goes to a more general question. Should you make a translation more narrow or more abstract than the source text? I'd say generally no. It should be reflective of the style, register and level of specificity of the original. But there are important exceptions. I don't see anything wrong with a target language version being more narrow or abstract, if that's a more idiomatic way of expressing a source concept into the target language (without significant loss of meaning). That's a judgment call. In this case, I just don't think we have a need for making it more narrow. We'd be translating what we know rather than what we see.
"Bereits am 17. Mai trafen die Staats- und Regierungschefs der EU auf dem Gipfel von Sofia...wieder mit ihren Amtskollegen aus dem Westbalkan zusammen und verständigten sich auf die Erklärung von Sofia, welche die uneingeschränkte Unterstützung der EU-Staaten für die europäische Perspektive des Westbalkans bekräftigte...betonte Prof. Dr. Lammert auch die Bedeutung des europäischen Parlaments und der nationalen Parlamente für die EU-Integration des Westbalkans." https://bit.ly/2PGBvY2
Yes, it's about the EU in this kind of context, not Europe.
Personally, I find this indiscriminate use of European galling, but there is nothing I can do about it, except for making people aware of the issue.
As all EU bureaucrats know, language is one means to control the populace. You may not like it. But that's politics. Not that much different in the States.
Misdirection may be, according to T. A. Waters, the cornerstone of nearly all successful magic, but it isn't helpful on this forum.
No one said anything about "categorically." Deutschenglisch said often, Steffen said seem to or countless and I said a multitude--which doesn't mean there aren't any examples to the contrary.
They don't apply here, though, because it's all about the context, not the benjamins this time.
"Die Europäische Perspektive des Westbalkans ...Die Beziehungen zwischen der Europäischen Union und dem Westbalkan bieten derzeit einmalige Chancen für eine engere strategische Verbindung: Serbien und Kosovo verhandeln über die Beilegung ihres langjährigen Konfliktes und eine nähere Anbindung an die EU. Am 30. September stimmen Mazedonierinnen und Mazedonier in einem Referendum über eine Mitgliedschaft in der EU und NATO..." https://dgap.org/de/node/31360
It's still not a good idea to insist categorically on the EU. The other 'European Court' (vs. the ECJ in Luxembourg) namely of Human Rights run by the Balkan-blighted Council of Europe in Strasbourg - and both of which the majority of Brexiteers mistakenly believe the UK is leaving this year - could also be factored into this European integrative equation.
I don't actually have time for this, but before someone else starts rambling on about Clinton-era wars in Europe and stained blue dresses, let me stop you right there and quote from the first link that shows up when googling "europäische Perspektive": "In den Augen der Politiker auf dem Westbalkan verschwimmt die viel gerühmte, ihnen schon 2003 in der Erklärung von Thessaloniki versprochene 'europäische Perspektive'. Es fällt ihnen auf, dass in den Gesprächen immer öfter von bloßer 'Konnektivität' die Rede ist anstatt von Beitritt..." https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2018-09/europa-balkan-eu...
... of what happened in the 1990s. The only point I was trying to make is that this aspect might perhaps not be in the main focus of the text the asker is working on. Only he (?) would be able to tell, though. On a more general note, one might also talk about European integration of the Western Balkan countries.
I agree with Adrian that we should rejoice that armed conflict has become a thing of the past in this region and sincerely hope that this will remain so in future.
The Serbia. Albania, Kosovo and 'North Macedonia' axis of Balkanisation (internecine and pulverising conflict) points to a different, (no-EU Army) military interpretation. (European including English soccer fans may also have a different interpretation e.g. of Croatian footballing ascendancy).
Its almost certainly means the EU given the actors involved. This has all been very useful. I will see what the client thinks
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Hi Steffen
09:03 Apr 30, 2019
Yes, prospects occurred to me as well. I chose 'approach' instead for its divine vagueness.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Hi DE-ENG!
09:01 Apr 30, 2019
Only you can know if the EU is meant or some other sector, since you have the document and all other surrounding context. The real catch, in my opinion, is the term 'Perspektive' which is often used in German in an esoteric fashion.
peer agreement (net): +1
