Fündtekugeln
English translation: fündten - finden - locating device
| 22:15 Jan 22, 2010 |
| German to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Esoteric practices / parapsychology - water divining | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
| ||||||
|  Selected response from: Gabriella Bertelmann Local time: 20:06 | ||||||
Grading comment
| |||||||
| Summary of answers provided | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4 | fündten - finden - locating device |
| ||
| 4 -1 | spheres/discs for scrying |
|
| Summary of reference entries provided | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Little bells |
| ||
| Fündtekugeln |
|
Answers
4 hrs confidence: 
fündten - finden - locating device Explanation: Im Mittelalter wurden Pendel beispiels- weise als *Fündtekugeln* bezeichnet. fündten (old German for finden), spheres/orbs/globules for locating |
| ||
Grading comment
| |||
Notes to answerer
| |||
| Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) | |||
13 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): -1
peer agreement (net): -1spheres/discs for scrying Explanation: Please see my reference comments below. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 17 hrs (2010-01-23 15:44:58 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- or divining instead of scrying. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:19:50 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Scrying is a very old word, despite what Johanna says, if I understand her at all. Spheres or discs if heavy enough could be used perfectly well as a pendulum. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:21:26 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Scrying balls would be a perfect translation for this. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:22:56 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- I should also say that there is no standard, one-fits-all pendulum shape. Pendulum merely refers to something hanging which is heavy enough to swing in order to get answers when dowsing. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:25:47 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Johanna's link in her comment to me does not work so I cannot comment on that, but I do know that whatever is/was used for dowsing - twigs, bare hands, pendulum, etc. - is/was believed to work by those who operate/d with these tools. Never heard tell of the use of 'gloves' though!! -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:33:10 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- PENDULUM SCRYING The ancient Romans were renowned for pendulum scrying and their methods were detailed in the writings of Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus. It is also possible that French seer Nostradamus used this same Roman method of basin scrying by means of a pendulum to produce individual letters that formed intelligible prophetic verses. The bowl used was a composite material of many metals, meaning it was made of electrum, an alloy of gold and silver. A ring was attached by thread to a wand. The ring was probably a band of electrum with occult characters engraved upon it. The twenty four letters of the Greek alphabet were engraved into the flange of the basin. The table used was probably a tripod in which to support the basin. It was made out of branches of laural and had three legs. Laural was the substance specified by the Enochian angels for the scrying table of John Dee. Another method which has been used in Europe for centuries involves the suspension of a ring from a thin silk thread inside an ordinary water goblet. The responses come in the form of tapping sounds as the ring gently raps the side of the glass. The seer asks a specific question that can be answered with a yes or a no. A single tap indicates a yes while two taps indicate a no. More than two taps indicates the spirit is not certain of the response. Another method is to use a sheet of paper with a cross marked upon it. The ring is held suspended over the cross in the left hand upon a silk thread. http://www.paralumun.com/pendulum.htm -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2010-01-24 02:34:57 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.wyrdology.com/scrying/pendulum.html |
| |
| Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) | ||
Reference comments
2 hrs |
| Reference: Little bells Reference information: Here they are referred to as 'little bells'. Maybe this passage will help you further: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=o_RXyW-XizkC&pg=PA189&lpg... A long passage here about bells again He begins the Sixth Book of his Archidoxes, thus. No Man can deny but Compositions of Metals, may Work wonderful things in Supernaturals, which may be made good by many Proofs, as I shall clearly shew beneath; for if you Compound all the Seven Metals in a due Order and fit time, and melt them together, as it were into one Mass, you will have such a Metal, in which all the Virtues of the Seven Planets are joyn'd together; you will find all these Virtues in that one Metal, which we call Electrum. And beneath he writes; you must know that our Electrum (which is Compounded of the Seven Metals) drives away all evil Spirits; for in our Electrum, the Operation of the Heav'ns, and Influences of the Seven Planets are stor'd up. Therefore the Ancient Persian Magi, and the Chaldaeans found out and perform'd many things by its means. I cannot here conceal a very great Miracle, which I saw wrought by a Spanish Necromancer, who had a Bell not exceeding two Pounds Weight, which, as often as he rung, he could cause to appear about him many Spirits and Spectres of various Kinds; for when he pleas'd, he drew some Words and Characters on the inward surface of the Bell, and afterwards, if he rung it, a Spirit presently appear'd in any Form he would have him: By the sound also of the said Bell he could draw to him also, or drive from him many other Visions and Spirits, and even Men and Beasts; as I saw with my Eyes many of these things done by him: But as often as he would undertake some New thing, so often he renewed his Words and Characters; but he would not reveal to me the Secret of these Words and Characters; though deeply considering the thing my self, I, at length, casually found it; which I shall not here disclose: but I plainly enough observ'd, there was more Importance in the Bell than in the Words, for the Bell was certainly made of our Electrum. So far Paracelsus. I may here note, That some Persons have told my self, that they have seen a constellated Plate here in London, made of such Electrum, which, if put under a Man's Pillow at Night, will make him hear Heavenly Musick. The description of the magical bell immediately made me think of something I'd seen a few years back at the Henry Moore Institute, which in 2005 showed and exhibition of bronze from the collections of Emperor Rudolph II. Among the objets d'art on display was a curious bell, supposed to have been cast in electrum magicum. The exterior, shown here, was embellished with florid images of the celestial powers, while - if my memory does not mislead me - there were magical sigils on the interior. Later I was to find similar bells of electrum magicum mentioned in connection to Girardius parvi lucii libellus de mirabilibus naturae arcanis (for necromantic experients) and discussed in some detail in L. von H.'s Magia Divina (for angelic experiments), while one is employed in the Faustian Magia Naturalis to coerce devils to reveal the whereabouts of buried treasure. In one of the 'Solomonic' works (appearing in Sloane 3847), the bell replaces the trumpet and is rung toward the east before the magician begins his invocations. Personally the most interesting item above is Beamont's note about the 'constellated plate'. Perhaps there is an element of 'suggestion' here, relating to the phenomenon of auditory hallucinations that often occur when one is in the hypnagogic state preceding sleep (for further anecdotes on this see Sacks' Musicophilia, Mavromatis' Hypnagogia, Zusne and Jones' Anomalistic Psychology, and so on). The story of the constellated disc also reminds me of the commonly recounted belief that Tibetan singing bowls are composed of an alloy of seven metals. Whether there is truth in this notion, which is often banded about in New Age circles, I am unsure, but it indicates that the fascination with the notion of electrum magicum as having peculiar and magical resonant qualities continues to the present day. Perhaps the connection between Tibet and the magical alloy can be traced at least as far back as Crowley's Liber 860, an account of a 1908 Parisian magical retirement, which mentions a Tibetan bell apparently cast in electrum magicum along with its striker of human bone. This same bell is also mentioned in Liber 418 (17th Aethyr) and described in detail in Book Four, which sounds something like a description of a Ting-sha cymbal: This Bell summons and alarms; and it is also the Bell which sounds at the elevation of the Host It is thus also the 'Astral Bell' of the Magician. The Bell of which we speak is a disk of some two inches in diameter, very slightly bent into a shape not unlike that of a cymbal. A hole in the centre permits the passage of a short leather thong, by which it may be attached to the chain. At the other end of the chain is the striker; which in Tibet, is usually made of human bone. The Bell itself is made of electrum magicum, an alloy of the 'seven metals' blended together in a special manner. [...] The sound of this Bell is indescribably commanding, solemn, and majestic. Without even the minutest jar, its single notes tinkle fainter and fainter into silence. At the sound of this Bell the Universe ceases for an indivisible moment of time, and attends to the Will of the Magician. Let him not interrupt the sound of this Bell. (II.14. The Bell, p.111, Symonds-Grant ed.) [I]n experience no bell save His own Tibetan bell of Electrum Magicum has ever sounded satisfactory to the Master Therion. Most bells jar and repel. (III.9. Of Silence and Secrecy, p.199, Symonds-Grant ed.) Electrum magicum: http://fusionanomaly.net/magick.html According to Aleister Crowley's instructions for the Ordo Templi Orientis, the pentacle is a disc of wax, gold, silver-gilt or Electrum Magicum, eight inches diameter and half an inch thick; the Neophyte should "by his understanding and ingenium devise a symbol to represent the Universe", and engrave this on the disc. http://www.medievalmagic.ca/info-pages/pentacle-pentagram.ht... Mirrors: (Discussion of the Life of Paracelsus) . . . 'Then there was the Electrum Magicum, of which the wise made mirrors wherein they were able to see not only the events of the past and of the present, but the doings of men in daytime and at night. They might see anything that had been written or spoken, and the person who said it, and the causes that made him say it. But I like best the Primum Ens Melissae. An elaborate prescription is given for its manufacture. It was a remedy to prolong life, and not only Paracelsus, but his predecessors Galen, Arnold of Villanova, and Raymond Lulli, had laboured studiously to discover it.' http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=62065&highlight=Al... Not sure where all this gets us, but maybe with your knowledge of the context, it will be of some use. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 3 hrs (2010-01-23 01:17:33 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Maybe 'discs' or 'spheres' would be your best bet. And I imagine the Fündte element could be translated as 'scrying', so 'spheres for scrying' or 'scrying discs' might work? |
| ||
Note to reference poster
| |||
| Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) | |||
18 mins |
| Reference: Fündtekugeln Reference information: = Findekugeln http://shortify.com/9825 -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2010-01-23 00:42:55 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- In der Faustischen Cabala nigra erfährt der Leser also ein Rezept zur Herstellung der ***Findekugel aus Electrum magicum**. Es ist, wie Faust seinem Nachfolger mitteilt, „wie Metall, und war doch kein Metall, denn es waren alle 7. Metalle in einem Metalle”. http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=98574121x&dok_var=... "Electrum magicum balls" are referenced here: http://shortify.com/9826 All you need now is a medieval/folkloristic term for those "electrum magicum balls". I've tried very hard to find it for you, but my divining gloves would not lead me to the right source :-( -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 days (2010-01-28 01:03:41 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- The problem is that “scrying balls” won’t work because a) the “modern” reader will associate it with today’s crystal ball- like devices: http://www.panpipes.com/catseyes b) Fűndtekugeln were made not of crystal, but of the Electrum magicum, which I mentioned in my first reference c) “scrying” is a term still used today, while “Fűndte” is a word that that no longer exists in modern German (comparable to : Fahrherr- the operator of a ferry) ; it may also well have been a regional dialect. “Scrying pendulum” won’t work for the above reasons: modern term, different material , not used for water dowsing What we need is the *historical* term for a *pendulum* consisting of *electrum magnum balls” used exclusively for *dowsing* ( i.e. no crystal balls, no crystal pendulums, no electrum magnum bells or mirrors, nothing that is not exclusively used dowsing) |
| ||
Note to reference poster
| |||
| Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) | |||
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.
See also:
Search millions of term translations