Tangentialtor

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Tangentialtor
English translation:gate formed by overlapping ramparts
Entered by: Wendy Streitparth

11:50 Mar 5, 2011
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer

German to English translations [PRO]
Science - Archaeology / Celtic settlements
German term or phrase: Tangentialtor
Here it is separately: Part of the description of a gateway into a Celtic settlement.

Im Süden war der Zugang zum ... Oppidum durch einen Abschnittswall mit Tangentialtor befestigt.
Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Local time: 15:26


Summary of answers provided
3Dog-legged gate
tcvarlh
3Tangential gate
Jeanie Eldon
2chicane gate
Helen Shiner
Summary of reference entries provided
dont think you'll find an exact term - heres another link
oa_xxx (X)

Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
chicane gate


Explanation:
This might be the case as I have already said in your double question. The French being 'porte en chicane'. Please see my refs for the previous question.



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Note added at 45 mins (2011-03-05 12:36:06 GMT)
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Oh well, I've spent rather too much time doing research for you this morning, so will have to wish you well and leave you to it.

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Note added at 52 mins (2011-03-05 12:42:45 GMT)
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Last thought: staggered entrance

The site area lies at the south-western edge of a large field just to the north of Bunkle Edge,
Berwickshire (illus 1). The earthworks included a sub-rectangular enclosure of about two hectares
which partially surrounded the Marygoldhill east fort, and a linear feature composed of a line of pits
and a flanking bank running north-westwards from the enclosure (NGR NT 8044 6049 to 8024 6070).
This incorporated a putative gateway (NT 8036 6057) with a staggered entrance (Site 2) (illus 2). The
enclosure was defined by a continuous double bank and medial ditch which converged with the linear
earthwork at the west corner (NT 8044 6049) (Site 1) (illus 3,4).
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2...

The site is defined by a double-ditch system, roughly square in outline with rounded corners, bowed-out sides on the north and west, and an entrance on the east defined by a staggered break in the defensive ditches; the gap in the inner ditch being displaced to the south, that in the outer ditch to the north. The enclosure measures 285 feet from north to south by 260 ft. east-west (c.87 x 79 m) within the ditches, giving an occupation area of almost 1¾ acres (c.0.7 ha). No trace of a rampart was found in position. The ditches were found upon excavation to be of regular V-profile but varying somewhat in both width and depth; the inner ditch varied between 14½ to 8 feet in width (c.4.1 to 2.4 m) and between 6 to 4½ feet in depth (c.1.8 to 1.4 m), the outer between 9 to 6 feet in width (c.2.7 - 1.8 m) and 4 to 2 feet (c.1.2 - 0.6 m) in depth.

The original excavators classified this site "as a fort rather than a semi-permanent camp" (BAS Trans. 1944 p.12), in view of its double, V-profile ditches and approximately rectangular outline. This was a reasonable assumption for the time, but now, however, as more and more examples of Roman military works have come to light, the site is known to display quite un-military characteristics; bowed-out or irregularly-proportioned defences are sometimes seen in the larger temporary camps but are very rarely seen in permanent works, the 'staggered' entrance is also very rare in the earlier works but are known in the 3rd century on the Devon coast (e.g. at Countisbury), the great variations in construction quality of the defensive ditches is not suggestive of the Roman military mindset, and the finds, particularly the metalwork, also seem more indicative of a domestic rather than a military occupation.
http://www.roman-britain.org/places/shenstone.htm

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 27
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, but can't help feeling this expression is too modern.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  adamgajlewicz: It's a little more complicated http://www.duensberg.de/duensberg.html
2 hrs
  -> No, that is not more complicated. It is exactly as described by a chicane.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Tangential gate


Explanation:
It seems like a literal translation but this is what I found in a historical encyclopedia:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f899xH_quaMC&pg=PA818&lpg...

Jeanie Eldon
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Jeanie


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Helen Shiner: The problem with this is that is the only such ref on the internet relating to this sort of context. It's a difficult one.
19 mins
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Dog-legged gate


Explanation:
I seem to recall my Arch Prof. using the phrase on a dig back in my Dark Ages. I cannot give any further info. Sorry

tcvarlh
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Now thats something quite different. Thank you.

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Reference comments


14 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: dont think you'll find an exact term - heres another link

Reference information:
you might well have come across already :)

I dont think dog-legged fits here, perhaps better with entrance than gate, would prefer something like staggered as suggested above, or maybe offset or oblique?

simple gaps; inturned ramparts; offset ramparts; oblique approaches; guardrooms; hornworks; and outworks.

On a number of large multivallate hillforts oblique approaches to these forms of entrance are created, either by overlapping outer ramparts, or by the construction of hornworks and outworks.

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Note added at 14 hrs (2011-03-06 02:26:42 GMT)
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(all examples are from this website, scroll down a bit ;)

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Note added at 14 hrs (2011-03-06 02:39:56 GMT)
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Maybe dog-legged works afterall, hard one, would go more for a description than a term though...

Dog-legged - With right-angle bends.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2011-03-06 03:17:26 GMT)
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http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/a-hadrian-arthur-hadri...

Example sentence(s):
  • Some large multivallate hillforts were entered through two sets of gates. At Danebury, for example, a second gate was located adjacent to the outer ditch.
  • Outworks are usually placed centrally across the main access route, creating a staggered and dual approach to the entrance.

    Reference: http://pcwww.liv.ac.uk/~Sinclair/ALGY399_Site/monuments.html
oa_xxx (X)
Germany
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you very much - your reference made very interesting reading

Asker: Many thanks Orla - the client plumped for "gate formed by overlapping rampart"


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Helen Shiner: Agree with staggered (well I would!) but not dog-legged, that seems more of an on-the-hoof kind of term or a layman's description. I think this is one more occasion where there is an explicit term in GER but not necessarily in EN.
9 hrs
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