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French to English translations [PRO] Tourism & Travel
French term or phrase:dans la mesure où il a un mouvement junior
Speaking of snow shoe walking events in Switzerland:
"Chaque étape, quant à elle, est organisée en collaboration avec un club sportif ou culturel de la région visitée, qui reçoit deux tiers des recettes financières, dans la mesure où il a un mouvement junior."
I can't tell whether "movement junior" is referring to a significant number of "young people" joining in the event, or "new members" joining in (junior in the sense of not having participated before). French Swiss can be a little special (no offense!), so I was wondering if any of you who are French Swiss might be able to shed some light on this. Thank you!
Explanation: I feel sure that's the intended meaning, though actually I think the use of 'insofar as' is actually not really quite right here (or at least, wouldn't be if you were to translate it that way as usual!)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 11 hrs (2010-10-29 07:17:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I agree with David's important point that 'junior' has a specific meaning in an organized sports context; however, I'm not sure if that really applies here, since we don't know if the term is being used with its specific technical meaning, or just in general. So Asker can choose for himself whether 'youth' or 'junior' is most applicable.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. Much appreciated. While the context isn't totally clear, and the sentence could be taken several ways, I think that this is most likely the more accurate rendition of the meaning. Thanks, Tony! 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Still, we all don't know enough about the context to assume that there is no element of proportionality (even if the text doesn't mention it). We don't know what exactly constitutes a proper youth program. It may be that a certain number of youth participants have to be enrolled in order to get this money, not simply that they have or not a youth program.
Yes, I know that "dans la mesure où" can mean "as long as", but I often prefer to use something like "to the extent that" just in case if one isn't sure exactly what the text is saying. That way, both ideas are covered.
"dans la mesure où" = as long as pas de proportionalité ici, il faut simplement que le club ait une section junior (jeunes) pour toucher les 2/3 de la recette.
There's no ambiguity here regarding "dans la mesure où". It means "as long as" as Tony has explained. There's no hint of proportionality. The only element of doubt in my mind surrounded the word "mouvement" which may be more common in this context in CH.
Yes, but there is ambiguity with this term. Sometimes, it's about proportionality, and other times it's about mere existence. You have to really grasp the context to know for sure.
I would just say "to the extent that it has a youth program" as to remain a bit ambiguous.
I do think it's about proportionality. It's not just about whether or not they have a youth sports program/section, but it is big enough to receive 2/3 of the money (the greater question)? And, we don't know if there is sliding scale of revenue, based on the size of the youth program. So, it doesn't seem to me that we're talking just about the existence or non-existance of a youth sports program. But I could be wrong!
"Each stage is organized in collaboration with a sports ... club ... which receives 2/3 of the money received ............ it [i.e. the club] has a youth section."
It seems to me that 'if' or 'as long as' is about the only thing that could logically fit in here, and 'insofar as' (the more usual, literal translation of 'dans la mesure où...') simply couldn't work; though mind you, 'as long as...' is another translation of 'dans la mesure où..', albeit a rather less commonly-encountered one.
How could one say 'depending on' if it then has to be followed by 'they have a youth section' — unless you go for something horribly unwieldy like 'depending on whether or not they have...' — which still sounds ghastly anyway following on from 'they receive...'
And i don't see how 'to the extent that' could possibly fit; they are going to receive 2/3 of the money, whatever, so there's no question of proportionality here...
Matthew, if you really think it could work, then please could you enlighten us all by posting your formulation of the entire sentence, so we can udnerstand what you're getting at.
surely is not an ideal translation for "dans la mesure où". It just doesn't make good sense to me, considering the rest of the sentence. The question isn't just if they have a youth sports program or not, but to the extent that they have one.
Anyways, I like "depending on" much better than that, as insanedreamer has already proposed.
I could just say "depending on the number of junior participants" which leaves it open either way, but I wanted to be more specific if possible, thus the question whether anyone knows how that expression is used in French-speaking Switzerland. Thank you.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
if it open to juniors
Explanation: My take on this is that the club only benefits from 2/3 of the takings if they have a junior section.
However, as I'm not 100% sure, I suggest the above as it leaves it a little ambiguous ("it" could mean the club or the event).
David Goward France Local time: 23:29 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 12
1 hr confidence:
Youth movement
Explanation: Je comprends cela comme "mouvement de jeunesse", therefore "youth movement". Does it fit in the context ?
Michel F. Morin France Local time: 23:29 Specializes in field Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: or communist (Komsomol) :-) Given this particular context, I don't think it fits. Thanks though.
insofar as there is fresh/first time participation
Explanation: This could possibly mean “junior" participants (in the “new/young in event participation” sense) and as opposed to their regular, “senior" participants (in the “already regulars” sense).
David Salas United States Local time: 16:29 Works in field Native speaker of: English, French PRO pts in category: 4
6 hrs confidence:
to the extent that it has a youth program
Explanation: Hello,
Since we don't know if we're talking about mere existence, or proportionality with regard to "dans la mesure où", I would just use "to the extent that" to adhere with the French ambguity.
Certain places may have youth programs, but perhaps they don't meet the requirement in size (participants) to receive the money in question.
ainsi que les probants résultats de l'ensemble de son mouvement junior, ... and the convincing success of its entire junior program reflect the hard ...
Explanation: I feel sure that's the intended meaning, though actually I think the use of 'insofar as' is actually not really quite right here (or at least, wouldn't be if you were to translate it that way as usual!)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 11 hrs (2010-10-29 07:17:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I agree with David's important point that 'junior' has a specific meaning in an organized sports context; however, I'm not sure if that really applies here, since we don't know if the term is being used with its specific technical meaning, or just in general. So Asker can choose for himself whether 'youth' or 'junior' is most applicable.
Tony M France Local time: 23:29 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 119
Grading comment
Thanks, everyone, for your input. Much appreciated. While the context isn't totally clear, and the sentence could be taken several ways, I think that this is most likely the more accurate rendition of the meaning. Thanks, Tony!
peer agreement (net): +2
