professions supérieures

English translation: Access to the professions

16:12 Nov 12, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. / catégories socioprofessionnelles
French term or phrase: professions supérieures
Au-delà de la faible représentation des plus jeunes, les principaux écarts entre les connaisseurs de Gallica et la population française portent sur les études longues, les professions et catégories socioprofessionnelles supérieures et la consommation de livres et d’activités culturelles, toutes mieux représentées que dans la moyenne française, comme l’a montré une récente étude de l’Ifop (Ifop, 2018).


I'm not sure that English-speaking countries share the same concept of 'professions supérieures' and 'catégories socioprofessionnelles'?

Here's my attempt so far:

In addition to the low representation of young people, the main differences between Gallica users and the general French population reside in attainment of higher education and more highly skilled jobs and socio-occupational categories, and consumption of books and cultural activities, which are all better represented than in the general population, as shown by a recent Ifop study (Ifop 2018).
Delaina
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:07
English translation:Access to the professions
Explanation:
We call the more high-profile, more demanding and traditional occupations "the professions".

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Note added at 11 mins (2019-11-12 16:23:56 GMT)
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"The 5 traditional professions are architecture, clergy, engineering, law and medicine. Law and medicine are traditionally considered to be the more elite of them."
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-professions

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Note added at 18 mins (2019-11-12 16:30:43 GMT)
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"...,prescence in the professions"
Or
"... access to the professions"

Your question states "professions supérieures", but the paragraph posted only says "professions". My answer has taken account of the adjective you used.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2019-11-13 07:32:52 GMT)
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"So while MEMBERS OF THE PROFESSIONS have long regarded themselves as different (by which they probably mean 'better') from those without letters after their name, it is becoming ever less clear exactly how they are different.
In short, just what is it that the PROFESSIONS actually profess about themselves that their prospective clients and society should value?"
https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/why-professions-pulled-ped...
Selected response from:

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:07
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for your help
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1higher occupational social class categories
B D Finch
4 +1Access to the professions
Lara Barnett
4more skilled jobs
philgoddard
Summary of reference entries provided
PCS in France
Wolf Draeger

Discussion entries: 39





  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
more skilled jobs


Explanation:
It doesn't say "professions supérieures" as such - it's "professions et catégories socioprofessionnelles supérieures", which is a very roundabout way of saying that they have more skilled jobs. I think you should take the jargon out and use plain English.

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Note added at 42 mins (2019-11-12 16:54:18 GMT)
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Or more skilled professions.

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I don't agree, Phil: because of the different way FR uses 'professions', they would not use it in this doublet without including it in the qualification, so it is for sure 'professions supérieures' AND 'catégories socioprofessionelles supérieures.
11 mins
  -> It's clumsy repetition to say "professions and socioprofessional categories". They both mean the same thing, which is how you earn a living.

disagree  Daryo: just because for you "it's all the same" doesn't make it "all the same".// to give you an example from a different field: 3 and 3.0 and 3.00 may seem "all the same" to you but they ARE NOT.
8 hrs
  -> I didn't say anything about numbers being all the same. What are you talking about?

neutral  B D Finch: It's about socio-economic class/status, which can't be reduced to "more skilled jobs".
22 hrs

agree  Wolf Draeger: Or "highly skilled"? But yes, "skills" is the most straightforward way to say it.
22 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Access to the professions


Explanation:
We call the more high-profile, more demanding and traditional occupations "the professions".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2019-11-12 16:23:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"The 5 traditional professions are architecture, clergy, engineering, law and medicine. Law and medicine are traditionally considered to be the more elite of them."
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-professions

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2019-11-12 16:30:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"...,prescence in the professions"
Or
"... access to the professions"

Your question states "professions supérieures", but the paragraph posted only says "professions". My answer has taken account of the adjective you used.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2019-11-13 07:32:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"So while MEMBERS OF THE PROFESSIONS have long regarded themselves as different (by which they probably mean 'better') from those without letters after their name, it is becoming ever less clear exactly how they are different.
In short, just what is it that the PROFESSIONS actually profess about themselves that their prospective clients and society should value?"
https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/why-professions-pulled-ped...

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:07
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for your help

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ph_B: with "members of the professions". Not for me to say how it can be used in the sentence, but "members of the profession" could be part of the solution.
15 hrs
  -> Thank you.

neutral  Gordon Matthews: I would probably translate "professions superieure" as "professional occupations". I don't read "access to" in either of the two words, "professions" and "superieure".
17 hrs
  -> "access to" or "presence in" is intended to help integrate the term into the sentence structure - you need to read the whole source sentence.....!

neutral  philgoddard: It doesn't say "access to".
21 hrs
  -> No, it certainly doesn't say that. I was trying to help the asker fit the time into her structure. I Hope that can be forgiven..
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
catégories socioprofessionnelles supérieures
higher occupational social class categories


Explanation:
See my discussion post re the inconsistency between the text you quote and the header term you posted for your question.

https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/23394892
A Domingo-Salvany, A Bacigalupe, JM Carrasco… - Gaceta …, 2013 - europepmc.org
… This article presents two proposals to measure social class: the new classification of occupational
social class (CSO-SEE12), based on the CNO-2011 … The proposed CSO-SEE12 consists of seven
classes that can be grouped into a smaller number of categories according to …

https://jech.bmj.com/content/59/10/898.short
GD Batty, DA Lawlor, S Macintyre, H Clark… - … of Epidemiology & …, 2005 - jech.bmj.com
… on an ordinal scale. 34 Linear weights were calculated as w i = 1-(i/5), where w i
is the weight given for a distance of i categories between the two measurements
of occupational social class. Using the original six occupational …

For the new European occupational social class categories see https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/archives/esec/user-guide/the-eu...

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Note added at 22 hrs (2019-11-13 14:33:26 GMT)
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Note that your text does not apply the adjective "supérieures" to "professions" (which, by definition, fall within the "catégories socioprofessionnelles supérieures"). So, "les professions et catégories socioprofessionnelles supérieures" would be
The professions and higher occupational social class categories.


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Note added at 22 hrs (2019-11-13 14:50:17 GMT)
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Sorry, I was wrong and the text does apply the adjective "supérieures" to "professions" too. Indeed that is the only justification for translating that as "professions" in English. Though, in English, the adjective "higher" shouldn't then apply to the noun "professions".


    https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/archives/esec/user-guide/the-european-socio-economic-classification
B D Finch
France
Local time: 17:07
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 78

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ph_B: with your 2nd note added at 22hrs:"professions" = professions supérieures. "(members of the) professions and (of the) higher occupational categories"?/Only suggested to take into account connaisseurs (="persons"). And it's Ph_B, please :-)
19 hrs
  -> Thanks Ph_B. There is no need for the addition of the words you have put in brackets in your suggestion. However, it is essential to include the social aspect of "socioprofessionnelles".// Sorry for blowing your cover: now corrected!
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Reference comments


33 mins peer agreement (net): +5
Reference: PCS in France

Reference information:
From Insee:

Catégorie socioprofessionnelle agrégée 3 : Cadres et professions intellectuelles supérieures

Cette catégorie regroupe des professeurs et professions scientifiques salariés qui appliquent directement des connaissances très approfondies dans les domaines des sciences exactes ou humaines à des activités d'intérêt général de recherche, d'enseignement ou de santé. Des professionnels de l'information des arts et des spectacles dont l'activité est liée aux arts et aux médias. Des cadres administratifs et commerciaux d'entreprise, salariés qui ont des responsabilités importantes dans la gestion des entreprises. Des ingénieurs et cadres techniques d'entreprise, salariés exerçant des fonctions de responsabilité qui nécessitent des connaissances scientifiques approfondies.



    Reference: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professions_et_cat%C3%A9gories_...
    Reference: http://www.insee.fr/fr/metadonnees/pcs2003/categorieSociopro...
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Ph_B
1 hr
agree  Cyril Tollari
5 hrs
agree  Daryo
10 hrs
agree  B D Finch
18 hrs
agree  Tony M
19 hrs
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